Ranking Revolution

Welcome to the Rankie revolution
podcast, your go-to source for strategies

and ideas for SEO, organic growth,
content creation and online business.

My name's Doug Cunnington.

I'm your host.

This is part two of the
interview with SCO Jesus.

His real name is Stewart Vickers.

Super nice guy.

And striking resemblance to a Jesus.

So check out his branding.

And we're going to talk about
YouTube and personal branding.

One thing to note.

And I was thinking about
this the other day.

I mean, I've been doing YouTube for, wow.

It's been a long time now.

I think, uh, 2016, uh, I really started
taking it a little more seriously.

And one thing I encourage people
to check out is a lot of the.

Prominent SEO folks are
doing a lot more on YouTube.

If you just kind of
look around, you'll see.

They have their own channel.

They're trying to be on other channels.

They're trying to collaborate and
they're trying to build their brand and

personal brand even more on YouTube.

Versus SEO, even though they are,
world-class very good SEOs that

are practicing on a high level
with many years of experience.

They are trying to build channels.

So it's one of those things
where you can observe.

What people are doing and,
and you may realize that.

They're doing it for a specific reason,
and maybe you should do that as well.

And I like podcasting this
why I started this show, but

just a quick little side note.

I mean, people are trying to expand even
when they were doing SEO, like that's the

only thing they were doing for many years.

They're now branching out and the.

See the power.

The see the writing on the wall
that they need to be on many

different platforms and have

as much independence as it could possibly
get away from just relying on Google.

And I'll leave it at that, but
I'll, I'll swing around and

catch on the other side here.

Doug: So let's shift into
YouTube and personal branding.

And, you know, we mentioned before
SEO Jesus for people that haven't

seen you and they're listening, you
a striking resemblance to Jesus.

You have really long
hair and a great beard

Stewart: Yeah.

So the full story is, yeah, I'm into metal
and so I've had a long hair for years.

Then I think it was around the pandemic.

I had some at the time, quite
intricate sideburns and facial hair,

hence my men's grooming websites.

And people find it quite ironic that
what you, you built this shaving

website whilst in the pandemic,
you happened to grow a beard.

I'm like, yes, you know how SEOs don't
actually use the products that promote.

Um, but I did have an interest in that
from beforehand when I was clean shaven.

Um, anyway, so after that, yeah, after
the pandemic started getting van drivers

heckling me saying, all right, Jesus.

Okay.

This is the thing, apparently.

And I was at an event in Bangkok two
years ago, got talking to this guy,

um, very friendly and he just sort
of hesitated and it was clear he'd

been trying to find the right moment
thinking I've just met this guy.

When's an appropriate time to say.

So why don't you do the
SEO Jesus thing, brother?

I've thought about it a few times,
other people have mentioned it

maybe, so I went on to Namecheap,
this is on a rooftop bar in Bangkok.

SEOJesus.

com is available, so I'm
like, right, I'm having it.

Left it for about a year.

And then I'm just telling
people this funny story.

And they're all saying, that's
so good, you've got to do that.

And from the minute you've told them
this hypothetical story of, wasn't

this funny when I got called SEO Jesus.

That then becomes all they're ever
going to call me, to the extent I

was then speaking at Masterminds
and I was being introduced, not as

Stuart Vickers, but as SEO Jesus.

And then, yeah, YouTube originally was
Stuart Vickers until, uh, most recently,

just a couple of months ago, I ran into
Julian Goldie, and he said, you should

change your name on YouTube to SEO Jesus.

Well, Julian Goldie
says it, got to be good.

Doug: Very good.

Okay, well, let's talk
about starting on YouTube.

It's Thanks.

A lot of work, it's hard and from my
standpoint, like I said, I'm a, I'm a

big proponent of people like starting a
podcast, start YouTube, like do something.

It'll probably be a train wreck
for a little while as you're

trying to figure things out.

And then actually if you look back,
like if I look back from videos from

just like two or three years ago, I
see, Oh, those are a train wreck too.

So it means I'm hopefully.

Constantly getting a little bit better
or focusing on something to improve.

But when you look at your, you know,
your agency and the work you're doing,

it makes total sense because this is
the part that people forget, like.

You don't have to know what you're
going to sell, like when you start the

channel, but if people know you and
trust you and they get used to watching

your videos or interacting with you
via email, after you mentioned, uh,

your email address on a podcast or
something, the conversion rate is much

higher because they kind of know you.

It's like a very long, like sales process.

So can you, can you talk
about that a little bit?

Have you seen impacts
already from your channel?

Stewart: Massively.

So how do I keep this concise?

Uh, always wanted to do YouTube,
but hesitated on it for years

because I thought, as I see, you
know, you've got the microphone,

you've got a really good setup.

So there's always that sense of, I want
to do it, but I need to buy all this stuff

and need to find it, either edit it myself
or find a video editor, got to vet them.

And, but then you realize all you
need to do is a simple screen share.

Now, when I started the agency, I
got, um, so I sold that website.

Now I thought I've got this
money to start the agency.

How do I get clients?

I could just blast it on
Facebook ads, probably not

actually get anything out of it.

Or I can go along to some high level
events, how to get masterminds.

And if nothing else, I'm
going to have a lot of fun.

I ended up being invited to a mastermind.

It was in Columbia.

We had two days in the hotel
doing the talks, but then we

went whitewater rafting in the
rainforest and got helicopters back.

So when I got that invitation, I
thought it's a lot of money, but

that's probably my best chance
to actually get my first client.

Says go where there's 20, six and
seven figure entrepreneurs hanging out.

If nothing else, what a great story.

And it works.

And I tried to scale that and in person
is great for your first six figures,

but very difficult to get beyond that.

And there was this huge anxiety that
to actually, uh, you know, clients do

have a natural lifespan, either if you
underperform, that's not great, but

equally you can overperform and they
say, great, we don't need you anymore.

So I was always trying to crack online
lead generation because there was this

huge anxiety that one of these events
would cost four or five grand to get to.

So.

If I lost my clients, I'd have to make
sure I'd have enough budget in reserve

to then go out and replace them.

So, and sometimes events
just simply didn't work out.

Still had a good time, but
commercially unsuccessful.

And so with the YouTube, yeah,
I just started, I was trying

everything online just to get online
leads rather than in person leads.

And ultimately, I just went for,
I'd say, really basic, completely

forgetting about perfectionism.

Yeah, very much about, uh, done is better
than perfect, radical imperfect action.

To the extent that, so I was sharing
about some of the mass auto blogging.

ai stuff I was doing and I edited it
myself and uploaded it and didn't even

realize I'd used I think iMovie and
I'd exported the wrong video quality.

So it was like 480p rather than 1080p.

And I heard a great, what really
got me going was I heard this great

bit of advice that basically said
if you mess up in your videos and

you get trolls coming after you.

That's good because it's engagement.

So I know a very big female YouTuber
and she basically said she'd have

terrible time with trolls, but she
embraced it because it would blow her up.

To the extent she'd then start
saying, it would start off with

things like here's five tips.

And then say you missed out number four.

So then she started deliberately
missing out number four.

And that's exactly what happened to me.

So that video just blew up and everyone
was saying, there were plenty of

heckles saying, someone said, was
this recorded on a Casio calculator?

And yeah, those people were saying,
this is really good content.

And that absolutely blew up.

So I thought, great, all I'm going to do
is a really simple screenshot every day.

Now, end of September, that nightmare
scenario I'd envisaged happened.

So I'd had a really nice birthday weekend.

And then Monday morning, I started
getting emails coming in from long

established clients who are very happy,
but for their own different reasons.

One was medical treatment.

One was her son had offered to do it
for free, all those kinds of classic

excuses you get as an agency owner.

And one way or another over
that week, I lost half my

clients in the space of a week.

I started doing.

YouTube about three weeks before.

And by the end of that week, I
was getting leads in my inbox.

I had no conversion rate optimization.

There were no opt ins, no email list.

They were just reaching out
saying, I've seen you on YouTube.

We'd love to have a call.

And within two weeks I'd
replaced that revenue I'd lost.

That's awesome.

Then then by January I tripled it.

Okay.

So basically the game plan is just
an imperfect video every single day.

Um, trying to keep up with Julian Goldie.

He's recently took, he was always doing
weekends, whereas I didn't do weekends.

He's now said he's going up to two a day.

So like, right, got to
go up to two a day now.

Doug: That's awesome.

Yeah.

And the thing is, um, getting those
reps in, especially now, cause like

your channel is as small as it's
ever going to be like right now,

and you're going to get better.

And in 2018, I did two videos a day
for like a month just as a test.

I was like, Oh, a lot of
people do daily videos.

I'm going to, I'm going to try
to do two a day and it was fine.

And you get more views and the metrics
went up, but the way I was doing it.

It was a little unsustainable, but yeah,
there's no better way to like get the

practice in you, you, uh, I mean, if
you turn your schedule down and you just

publish like twice a week, then you can
get like, you know, half a year done

in a few weeks or something like that.

So it's really powerful to like
open up your schedule and all that.

So that's pretty

Stewart: cool.

It's a tough one.

So it's a holiday for two weeks now
in terms of client work, I got an

account manager a couple of months ago.

It's really good.

So, so it means I really
can just oversee everything.

And so I'm much more as just the
consultant for my own agency, basically.

So for two weeks out, they always say
there's that two week holiday test.

Do you have a proper business?

Can you take two weeks off?

And overall operation is really good,
but new leads definitely dropped.

So there is a sense of being trapped
into that content grind, but equally

at the same time, they say, until
you hit the million dollar mark, you

just want one channel, one product,
and we should hit that very soon.

And then we'll probably look into.

more evergreen channels where you can
switch off and come back to it later.

Doug: Anything else on like YouTube and
personal branding, any, any mistakes

you made in the short term or maybe
other than not starting sooner, right?

That's, that's the thing
everyone would say, right?

Stewart: Yeah, that's a classic.

And I would definitely say that
embracing imperfection thing.

Loads of people I know who are
now, you know, they've seen

me, they've seen other people.

So steadily, there are more and
more people piling into YouTube.

But I can still see them doing these
really, these polished efforts and I

get it, some people want to put out
this perfect piece, but I'm saying I'm

going to, it's not a competition, but
I will beat you just on sheer volume,

as long as the content is still good,
a basic screen share still works

just as well as your animations and
cutscenes and so on, and, other things

for personal branding, I wrote a book
last year, but it wasn't particularly

successful, I'm looking to do More books
soon, but keep them more open ended.

So less about technical
things like SEO and more about

broader business mindset stuff.

And I've got the Google Knowledge Panel.

People really appreciate that.

That's just nice, nice to have.

It's quite nice to Google
your own name and see you're

regarded as a person of note.

And all you have to do is follow the
steps to actually get that triggering.

I've got a YouTube video on it.

And No, I don't really think
there's Not sure what's on there.

I am planning on doing a course
on my whole YouTube process.

I actually need the discipline
to actually get it out there.

But it really is as simple
as keep it simple, stupid.

So it can be a basic webcam.

I just use my iPhone.

You can see I don't even have
a fancy podcast microphone.

I keep telling myself to upgrade,
but just keep testing things out.

And the great thing is what I really love
about it is it caps your downside risk.

Because it means you can play around
with all these things, which in the

past, that's always been my problem.

Because I'm playing around with
all these different things, but

not actually focusing on getting
one thing to escape velocity.

Whereas YouTube really rewards me for
doing all these little experiments.

I blow stuff up so that
other people don't have it.

Doug: So one thing we have in our notes
here that you sent over is how to reverse

engineer whatever is on this SERP.

So this is a highly actionable
piece of information.

So I'm going to just leave it.

To you to give us the steps and how
you actually analyze what's going on

so you can understand what's effective

Stewart: yeah, so basically I think
I was just stuck in the sort of

authority site niche site philosophy
of just focusing on my website and I

think those people fall into That trap
whereas really you just want to keep

an eye on the actual search result.

So it wasn't really until Uh, yeah,
start the agency, travel the world, start

networking with much more high level
SEOs and a lot more of the cat crowd.

And they're basically talking about
different snippets and the map pack

and all these different things.

And you realize, yeah, SEO is
so much more than your website.

That's why I say about Reddit,
the, uh, even doing the Reddit

stuff, you might think it's just
spamming comments on Reddit.

But you've still got to identify
the Reddit results that are

getting significant traffic.

So, Google tells you exactly,
all SEO is is correlation.

Google tells you exactly
what is ranking right now.

And, so yeah, I get people reaching
out to me saying, Helpful content

update, I've lost 80 percent
of my traffic, how do I fix it?

And sometimes it's, unfortunately,
it's all Reddit and LinkedIn,

where your website used to be.

But there's no reason you
can't do Reddit and LinkedIn.

And that's been the big learning
for me over the past few weeks.

Like I say, a lot of things we perceive as
threats really are opportunities, because

now if I want to go into a different niche
and I can see there's LinkedIn and Reddit,

great, I can do that in 10 minutes.

If I'm going to start a website in
that niche, then it's going to be

six months before I get out of the
sandbox and get decent traffic.

Doug: Perfect.

Okay.

And it's really just the obvious, like
if we are looking at the problem and the

solution, we think is what we were doing
before, like affiliate sites and you

start your own website and then you get
into the sandbox and so on and so forth.

And you're saying you could use a
different tool instead of a website

and that tool is LinkedIn or Reddit or
whatever the SERP is telling you, right?

Stewart: I think the methodology
is that people still take the sort

of news site philosophy of let's
answer loads of questions, do loads

of info content, and then try and
funnel people towards an offer.

Yeah, maybe I've got a course
or something like that.

But I'm often telling people
that you realize, you know, these

questions and answers, they're being
answered by all these snippets.

You might still want them for topical
authority, but do you actually have a

page on your website for all those people
searching for that course you offer?

And a page on your website that says, I
offer this course because Google is never

going to replace, you know, e commerce
is untouched by helpful content updates.

Because someone searching for this
item gets given this item and that's

not going to change with barred,
gender search, anything like that.

So if you've been promoting your own
product through your niche website,

then just optimize for that main
keyword and you'll still perform.

Perfect.

Doug: All right.

So you have an agency.

Who's a good client?

Who are your ideal clients out there?

Stewart: I mean, traditionally, I'd love
to say my fellow affiliate site owners,

cause that's where I started, but.

Yeah, frankly, a lot of us have had
a rough ride and until Google sorts

itself out, a lot of you might be
better off doing Reddit and LinkedIn.

But like I say, e commerce
really hasn't been touched.

So my favourite niches are always the
higher ticket stuff, because basically

you can have a lot of fun with it.

And that's why I originally specialised
in high ticket coaches, because I had

this shaving website and my average
commission was a couple of dollars.

That's why I then did the spirituality
site, because I thought I could get

an average commission more like 50.

So over time, I've been fascinated by
this idea of what's the highest margin

for sale I can possibly get because
it takes the same resources to sell an

expensive product as a cheap product.

And what you generally find is for high
ticket services, people are actually much

more willing to part with their money.

So I always say, I mean, it applies
anyone who owns their own business

and has actually got the margin
for a done for you agency, then

they could well be a good client.

But I always like to be challenged in
terms of if you were hypothetically

trying to sell super yachts, private jets.

I bet there's an opportunity there for
SEO and a lot of the time, the, the

competition doesn't quite add up quite
often in a higher ticket niche for some

reason, just like my insurance background,
you can have really valuable products.

Where the SEO competition
just isn't there.

Meanwhile, if you're an affiliate
trying to sell lawnmowers on Amazon,

you've got the saturated competition.

So if you're an affiliate site
owner, I would say, yeah, trying

to actually get your own product.

And if you do have your own product
with a lot margin, then I definitely

think we can rank that for you.

Very

Doug: good.

And do you have any other services there?

What all do you do?

Is it just link building something else?

Stewart: I'm trying to be disciplined and
stick with this, uh, one channel, one,

one product until you hit the million.

But, um, but like I
say, we're not far off.

And like I say, we really
do include the content.

So we started as a link building agency.

I was following the other link
building agency out there, sort of

modeled ourselves on, and I just
tried to do a better version of those.

Really focusing on the
quality of the links.

And, but like I say, very quickly found
a lot of clients just weren't a fit

because the content wasn't up to scratch.

And that's like, I'm not
going to sell you links.

And if, if I know they're not
going to have that impact, but I

realized, especially with AI, we
can very quickly revamp the site.

So if your existing content for
that main money keyword is not

already well optimized we can
do that for you very quickly.

If your overall topical
silos, your topical relevance.

isn't there.

If all your competitors have got 50 to
100 pages on this topic and you've got

three, well, maybe in month one, we should
just do 50 fully optimized articles.

So that's basically how we
start with most clients.

It's not the best content in the world by
any means, but it fulfills the entities.

And pretty much every time it
works out with an explosion of

traffic, because not only are they
building links for the first time.

But they're also just ranking
content that didn't exist before.

Very cool.

And things like, uh, press releases,
citations, things like that.

And it can help with local
SEO and the map pack.

But fundamentally I'm all
about just content and links.

Generally, whatever your business is,
the chances are there's only a handful

of keywords you really care about.

So some people are all about building
these massive websites, but for

most people, I'd say certainly
bricks and mortar businesses,

it's often just five to 10 pages.

Make sure the content is up to scratch,
make sure it's fast, all well optimized.

And then just slam it with
links until you're number one.

Awesome.

Doug: Well, we have links for all
your stuff that we'll put in the

description and show notes and all of
that, but where should people find you?

Where do you want them to go?

What, what are we going
to list down there?

Stewart: Yeah.

Hopefully by the time you get
this, I'm still trying to keep up

the two videos a day on YouTube.

And I've also got the ranking
revelations newsletter on seojesus.

com.

If you do watch the YouTube video,
then I'll try to make a point.

This is a good point in
terms of YouTube strategy.

Have a call to action because so many
people don't, and you might think you

can slip something in the description,
but who really reads the description.

So if you want people to take
action, tell them that in the video.

So if you do go to my YouTube, you'll
hear me repeatedly say, go to seojesus.

com and join Ranking Revelations.

All those videos I tried to share on
LinkedIn, trying to build up my Twitter

presence as well, but fundamentally go
to YouTube, go to Ranking Revelations.

You won't miss anything.

Awesome.

Doug: Well, thanks Stuart.

This has been a lot of fun.

Hopefully we can get an update
from you in a few months.

Hear what you're

Stewart: working on.

Absolutely, when Reddit and
LinkedIn has blown up and I've

found something else to work on.

Thanks a lot to Stewart.

Be sure to check out SEO
Jesus over on YouTube.

And hopefully I'll have him on again soon.

I know at the very end of the
episode, here we talk about.

When Reddit and LinkedIn have
blown up, Stuart says he'll

find something else to work on.

And I'm not a hundred percent sure, but
I'm pretty sure that Reddit will be.

Super saturated.

I think LinkedIn maybe already
started taking some action.

Reddit might have as well.

So I know Stuart provides
updates over on his channel.

So if you want the latest, be sure
to check it out and you can look

for, we are roughly the March,
April timeframe or so of 20, 24.

If you're.

Consuming this a long time in the future.

So coming back to the personal
branding, I mean, that is what I am

advising people these days, like.

If they're like, Hey, I
want to start a side hustle.

I'm not telling people to start a blog.

You.

You know, sort of niche site.

You could still learn some
cool stuff, but the fact is

it's going to take a long time.

To get traction.

It'll take a long time to rank.

It's a lot of work and unless
you really want to write.

Unless you cannot get it out of your head.

And you want to start a blog, then
you probably should do something else.

YouTube is great.

There's a lot of people that are
scared to get on YouTube, just

because you're putting yourself
out there, especially on video.

I pushed podcasting.

It's a little bit of a
bridge between blogging.

YouTube.

You still have to put yourself out there.

It can be a little bit stressful.

It's very awkward, too.

If you just have a solo
show, just talk to yourself.

But there's a lot of
different formats out there.

And as I've said a few times,
Podcasting is the hammer that I'm

trying to hit everything with.

And I will just justify either
YouTube or podcast in this way.

So even if you don't even
care, if you have a following.

If you.

Have a podcast or a YouTube
channel and you produce videos.

You will have to.

Clarify your thoughts, you will
have to think about things.

And you will have to
either write it down or.

Talk your way through it, but it
forces you to make a decision about

what you think about a various topic.

And that is very powerful
because otherwise you're just.

Kind of spinning around in your own head
and you're not coming to a conclusion.

You can change your mind.

When you get new information.

You should potentially change your
mind or at least consider it if it

contradicts what you thought before.

But the whole point is.

Even if no one consumes the podcast or
YouTube videos that you're creating.

How you don't even have to publish them,
but it's, if you actually produce content.

You are thinking about things critically
and you are actually processing your

thoughts and putting them in some
final version where you're producing

content and you're publishing.

You could do the same thing.

With blogging.

And a lot of people say that when
you write, if it does force you to

clarify your thoughts, Writing is like
thinking on paper or typing it out.

But the point is it makes
you think a little bit harder

and come to a conclusion.

We had to do that when we
were in school and stuff.

But once you get out of school and we're
independent, we can do whatever we want.

It's really easy to not do that.

So that is why I still
believe podcast or YouTube.

Do it.

You will become a better speaker.

You'll be a better communicator.

You will think.

More clearly about whatever
it is you're analyzing.

So that's my pitch.

Check out Stewart stuff.

Great.

YouTube channel out there.

If you have a minute, if you like
these shows, do me a favor, download

all the episodes that you can.

All right.

All the episodes that you can.

That's why I'm putting out two
parters with, uh, Interviews.

I always separate them into two parts.

And leave a review out there.

If you have a chance,
I really appreciate it.

All that stuff does help leave
comments on YouTube videos.

You can say anything you want
on there, you can leave an

inside joke, random stuff.

It doesn't even matter.

I appreciate the support out there and
we'll catch you on the next episode.