Ranking Revolution

Welcome to the ranking revolution
podcast, your go-to source for

strategies and ideas for SEO, organic
growth, content creation and business.

This is part two of the interview
with Rachel Hernandez from the Hoth

in part two, we will be focusing on
white labeling or reseller services.

The Hoff started in that area,
and it's a great way to outsource,

especially if you're like a solo.

Entrepreneur or small agency and you went
to expand either your service offering

or how much work you can actually do.

The Hoth could be a great solution.

So we're going to talk to Rachel.

About those details and some of the best
practices for white labeling services.

Doug: So moving on to the white
label stuff, as far as I know, um,

I think from very early on the Hoth
did offer white label services.

And I think that was a smart move
for people that are unfamiliar.

Can you explain what white
labeling is and what it entails?

Rachel: Yeah, so the Hoth actually
only really sold white label

services when they started in 2010.

Um, and what that essentially means
is that any business person, um,

if you're in a marketing agency, if
you're a solopreneur, and you are

Want to sell, um, another service
that you don't currently offer.

What you can do is buy that,
whatever that deliverable or

services from another agency.

White label means that all of the
reporting, um, is not branded.

So when we do Hoth reports,
it's not Hoth branded.

You can put your own branding on it.

Resell those services to your own clients.

Add a product to your suite that wasn't
there with a virtually no overhead.

Our prices have been for this industry.

They're low, not because
it's a cheap product.

But because we started off as white label
and we needed to have wholesale prices

so that people could resell them at a
market value that made sense to users.

So we have many clients who will, um,
cause I'll tell you as somebody who did

this building backlinks, it's, it's hard.

It is not easy.

It is very time consuming.

We have like a massive
team that just does that.

Um, and they're one of the
most important elements of SEO.

So if you want to add that.

Let's say to your suite,
you buy a link from us.

And you can mark it up as
much or as little as you want.

I think most people do 50%.

Um, but that's really up to you.

And then you resell it.

You have no overhead.

You don't have, you don't
have to add to your team.

You just basically make the profit.

Um, so.

Yeah, it's a great fit.

Like if, um, if you are in the
affiliate space, uh, we work

with a lot of web developers.

We work with a lot of people
who sell PPC, um, and they

want to add SEO to their suite.

Um, and yeah, I mean, if you want to grow
and scale your business, it's really hard.

And I've, like we talked about, I've,
I've been part of a company that scaled

really, really quickly and successfully.

I think one of the major things to know is
like, when to delegate or find a partner

that you trust, that can do good work for
you, that you don't have to worry about.

A lot of people, um, In general,
like have a hard time letting go.

They want to have complete
oversight over everything they

sell or every service they provide.

But if you look at, um, the social proof
or proof of concept, it really makes

sense to partner, um, with an agency
like ours, for instance, um, You can

sell, I don't know how many thousands
of dollars in SEO in a month without

really having to do much beyond sign
up for an account and, and work with

an exec and have a few conversations.

Doug: So it sounds like a great business
model and some people might be thinking

like, why don't you just sell directly to.

The customer and then take the
other 50 percent profit, right?

You're selling at wholesale prices.

Can you talk about that and the
decision early on to target white label?

Rachel: Yeah.

I mean, the decision early on to target
white label, I think was incredibly

intelligent, like you said, cause
it was a space that, um, wasn't

particularly competitive at the time.

So we really offered something that, um.

not many other agencies did.

And then we sort of moved into
working with more, um, SMBs

and end users just naturally.

Um, the Hoth, um, was one of has
been one of the bigger known SEO

agencies for quite some time.

And so, like, word of mouth or marketing,
people started coming to us and we

were just like, okay, well, These
people need SEO, uh, where we have the

services to provide them with that.

We added managed SEO to our suite.

So like a 12 month, uh, where you have an
account exec and a campaign manager who

does all the research for you, digs into
your website and that just really blew up.

It just took off.

That's one of the reasons
why we grew so quickly.

We don't charge different prices because
that's just not a nice thing to do.

Do, um, um, and so, you know, we, we
really pride ourselves on, um, being

able to help both the end user and.

And the agency model, um, our
jobs to help people be successful.

And for a reseller, that's how,
sorry, that's how we term, um,

agencies who reseller service that
looks one way for an end user.

Um, the end result looks another way, but
all in all we're helping businesses grow.

through providing really good SEO.

Doug: So one other thing, and I'm, I'm
sure this happens, but, um, when let's

say a reseller is offering like additional
services or, um, essentially like a white

glove situation or something like that.

So what sort of things can a
reseller, so someone's running

their own agency, let's say it's me.

Um, so.

Actually, this is a, this
is a great, um, scenario.

I got laid off in 2015 and I was side
hustling at the time, but I didn't

know what I wanted to focus on.

So I did a few things and one of
the most profitable and successful

areas was a link building service.

I was doing guest posting in 2015 and I
was pretty good at it, but it turns out.

It's a lot of work and I don't
like working with clients.

So even though it was the most profitable
area, I was like, I'm not doing this.

Fired the clients and, you
know, moved on and it was fine.

But one solution instead of me
doing everything would be to work

with the Hoth or another company.

And then you guys could do everything.

You can do a portion of it.

I could change the.

Services and expand the lineup of offers
that I have, but what other things could

I have added as a solo operator to add
more value to, you know, charge even more?

So let's say I was like charging,
you know, 50, 80 percent higher than

whatever you guys were charging.

What would I add, um, to the
offer to make it more valuable?

Rachel: Yeah, I mean, I think that
really depends on your, your users to

like in your client base because that's
going to look different for everybody, I

would say, um, so like if, um, I'm kind
of, I hope this answers your question.

If not, you can hold my feet to the fire.

in a minute, but, um, like when we
talk about reselling or scaling or,

or growing your business, um, I'm also
a really big fan of, um, like using

VAs and outsourcing for other things.

So I have, we have clients at the Hoth.

Um, we also have a freelance marketplace
called FreeUp that does like a lot

of, um, Other marketing things that
the Hoth doesn't necessarily do.

We don't do web development, for example.

Um, so if we have a user,
cause everybody's different.

We have users who come
to us and they're like.

I don't have a website, but
I know I'm going to need SEO.

And then it's like, okay, I can,
um, connect you with somebody

who will build your site.

That's part of the add on.

We'll like help.

And we have these that
help manage all that.

And then.

They'll get the SEO from us or
somebody who's like, um, I need

like a C someone to set up my CRM.

Like, I feel like when people are
running businesses like this, there,

it's just, there's so many different
things, um, that come with it.

And.

When you are running a very lean team
or you don't want to spend a lot of your

time with clients, um, I think you can,
you can find people who will basically

do all the heavy lifting for you, um,
and so that you can focus on the parts

of your business that you like the most.

And I don't know if that particularly
answered your question, but that's

sort of the use cases that I've seen.

Doug: Okay, and I'll I'll repeat it
back because I think it might have so

Basically if a client comes to you and
every client is a little bit different

or maybe you're working in different
markets So they inherently look Different

their problems are all different.

They all have issues and problems
They need solved and you just

connect them to the right solution
provider at the end of the day And

Rachel: then, I mean, there are so many
partnerships that you could set up now,

like we are, um, a SEMrush affiliate.

We love SEMrush.

We use SEMrush all the time.

It's a very natural partnership,
but when somebody is looking for SEO

software, we're not an SEO software
company, but here is our SEMrush.

We are partnered with them.

Here is our link, sign up,
and then we get a little extra

income stream from that too.

Doug: So you guys have worked
with a lot of resellers over time.

What are some mistakes that you see
people make, whether they're, you

know, solo operators that are just
need a little help, or if they're

like a bigger company that maybe
they grew too fast and they need to

outsource, like, A chunk of their work.

Yeah

Rachel: Yeah, I mean I think some of
the mistakes that i've seen working

with resellers in the past I think I I
touched on this but um, especially like

founders and That's not to like talk crap.

They want control over everything.

Yeah.

Um, and they want it done exactly the
way they want it to be done all the time.

Um, which is a, you know, uh, I guess an
admirable way of thinking, but if you are

actually going to scale your business to
make millions and millions of dollars,

at some point you gotta like let the
reins go a little bit, um, and trust

the people who do this day in and day
out that they know what they're doing.

What they're doing like I, I actually
just worked with, um, oh, gosh, I

shouldn't talk smack, but I will.

Um, I won't name any names.

Um, somebody who, um, you know, asked
us to do this is not necessarily

a reseller, just an example, like
content for, um, Like their website

and for a marketing campaign.

And we got some really, really good
people who do this every day for huge

brands and who are very successful,
um, to create like a, uh, pretty

amazing creative content strategy.

And they were like, you know what?

Actually, I like the way
that I've been doing it.

So I'm going to go ahead and do it myself.

And it's like, no, no, no, no, no.

You came to us because
you wanted help with this.

And, um, why not just like trust the
people who are experts at doing this

and know what they're doing and they're
transparent and communicate with you.

Um, I see that a lot with
agencies and people scaling

up and they want things done.

The way they've always done them.

But if you keep doing things the
way you've always done them, you're

not necessarily going to grow.

Um, and that's a tough thing to let go of.

And I personally am a control freak,
and it was very hard for me to manage

700 writers because I wanted to
run every, write everything myself

because I like the way I write.

But we wouldn't sell, uh, 20,
000 blog posts a month if I

was writing 20, 000 blog posts.

Doug: Yeah, it is tough.

And I think, I think it's hard for
people to let go when they have been

doing it the same way for so long.

Do you have any recommendations
for someone to like test in a small

way if they can, you know, get, get
enough courage to like, maybe the

person you Talking about before like
how could they have like tried it

on a small scale before like, you
know They felt like they were giving

Rachel: overhauling overhauling.

Yeah I mean, I think there there are
things that we can do where there's a

b testing involved too If you're like
doing some paid media or if you're doing

some emails Do one your way do one the
new way see which performs better Um, I

think that's like a very Easy thing to
do, but people don't necessarily do it.

I talk to people all the time who don't
test, um, their content, and, um, I know

I happen to be very lucky to have a lot
of resources, but it's also one of the

most important things you can do as a
business owner who is doing marketing,

um, because we do like to think that
we know our users, we know everything,

we know what connects with them, when
most of the time we know our product.

But we don't necessarily know the people
and how to communicate it to them.

Um, so yeah, if you want to do like a
landing page, that's a great way to start.

If you don't want to start
with your website directly.

Um, if you want to start a blog in a
new voice and, and post, um, some of

that content on social media, see if
it gets any traction or any responses,

you know, there are, there are a ton
of avenues for you to kind of try.

a different voice and see how it
works before doing a full overhaul.

But also just don't be scared.

And the other thing is, is
like things take a little time.

So, um, you know, when we do like
a paid ad campaign, which we do a

lot of, um, um, I don't expect to
really know how that campaign went

for at least a month, if not more.

Um, and if I just looked and said
in a day, Oh no, nobody's clicking.

And I'm not like, this is like,
that's not, that's panicking.

That's not actually like thinking
things through and seeing, seeing

things through and how they go.

Doug: Definitely more like reacting versus
having a hypothesis at the beginning,

testing it out and like checking.

And I, I see that a lot too, where
people just like, they react quickly.

And I think they're, they think
they're just, you know, Taking quick

actions and making quick decisive
decisions, but they end up flip

flopping around so much, you know,

Rachel: exactly like there has to
be a thoughtfulness, um, Associated

with any marketing campaigns.

If you expect them to be sustainable or
any business move, um, you know, there

has to be a thoughtfulness and a plan.

And okay, we're going to keep an eye
on this for X amount of time because

that's, And, um, I would say, yeah,
consult with experts if you don't

know what you're doing, because not
everybody knows everybody, everything.

Um, that's,

Doug: yeah, no one does.

Yeah.

Talk to an expert.

Okay.

So let's say there is a solo operator
or small agency that wants to

explore white labeling with a Hoth.

Like what, what are the next steps?

Like how do they start
moving forward with it?

Rachel: So, um, I, We'll send you
a link to add to the show notes,

but, um, I do have, um, basically a
team that just helps people reseller

services, um, for account execs.

So they'll give you sort of a rundown of,
of how to sell SEO, um, how to talk to

your users, how to explain it to people.

It can be a complex thing for
people who are brand new to

understand exactly how it works.

And one of the things that we've been
really good at is putting it into,

quote unquote like layman's terms.

Um, that communicate the success
and not necessarily the nuts

and bolts that go into it.

Um, so I will definitely share
that link and, um, we are running

some discounts right now too.

So I'll share the link for that
as well because this is actually a

really good time to take advantage.

Especially now with everything that's
going on, um, to make sure that your

SEO solid or if you're reselling it that
you're prepared to answer questions about

everything that's going on to your users.

Perfect.

Yeah.

Doug: We'll link up to all that stuff.

Rachel, where can people find you
if they want to connect or learn

Rachel: more?

Okay.

So, um, I'm active on LinkedIn.

Um, so Rachel a Hernandez,
um, is my LinkedIn handle.

That's probably where I am.

talking the most these days, and I
would definitely recommend following

the Hoth on Instagram, LinkedIn.

We have a great blog.

That's content that I oversee.

It's a lot of fun.

We like to mix educational.

We are a little cheeky, uh, without
being mean, but, um, we really

try and break down SEO, make it
super simple and fun to understand.

So, uh, people can, you know,
Enjoy it and be more successful

Doug: at it.

Awesome.

Well, thanks Rachel.

We'll link up to all that stuff
so people could find it easily

and hopefully we'll catch up soon.

Thanks.

Yeah.

Rachel: Thanks Doug.

Thanks again to Rachel.

It was fun catching up with her.

We haven't met before, but we had a
nice conversation during the interview.

Of course.

And then we chatted
for a while afterwards.

So keep an eye out for any time
that Rachel speaks at conferences,

she does go around and speak.

Uh, various different events
throughout the country.

So one thing I want to point out here is I
have used the Hoff like a lot back in the

day and then sort of started doing my own.

Owned work instead of outsourcing it.

And one interesting thing.

And I don't know if it is as
popular, but I know personally, a

few people that I worked with that.

We're in my circle of peers.

They actually ran agencies
where they outsourced.

Probably 99% of any of the actual
execution of the work to the Hoth.

So whether it was link building or if it
was content or any other little piece.

Of the work.

They were outsourcing all
of it and they served as.

The account manager and the
person selling the service.

So this individual, and I'm
sure it happened a lot, but

this particular individual, he.

Essentially set up a website.

He had some, you know, Presence on
social media and a blog and he would.

Basically market himself as an
agency and you know, like many,

I mean, just fill in the blank,
many different jobs or companies.

Like if I was washing
cars and I was like, Hey.

I want to wash your car.

Like you wouldn't necessarily expect
me to do all the washing and waxing and

detailing and all that stuff of your car.

I would have a team of
folks that would work on it.

So it kind of worked like that.

You can imagine it like that.

So pretty simple business model
where this person was effective

at selling the services.

And managing the team and
being a project manager.

And of course the Hoff does have
like fully managed services.

So you can say, Hey, I want
this suite of activities.

You guys can manage it.

And of course, if you follow
the link, you can check out.

You know the offerings from
the Hoff out there, but it is

an effective business model.

And I think one of the issues that
I had personally, when I try to,

you know, essentially run a link
building agency, I did guest posting.

It was really profitable and it
was very effective up to a point,

but I had a hard time keeping up.

So I was working.

A reasonable amount, then it
ended up being a little bit more

and a little bit more, and it
was more than I wanted to work.

And working with clients was something
personally that I did not want to do.

So at that point, I decided I didn't
even want to outsource it because

personally, I didn't want to work with
the clients as an account manager,

just not my personal preference.

Other people thrive in that
they want to do that work.

That's what, that's, what
really gets them excited for me.

It was the opposite.

So it was important for me to
get out of that line of business.

But that is a whole idea with white
labeling reselling and how you

might implement it with your team.

So, if you aren't
interested in learning more.

You can follow the links
in the description.

And I know Rachel left.

I think it was her LinkedIn,
but we'll put the link in there.

So if you want to connect with
her, you can check it out.

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