Ranking Revolution

Doug: This is part two of the
interview with Paul Andre de Vera,

or Dre, as everyone calls him.

So we caught up with Dre before
we talked a little bit more about

YouTube and personal branding.

I'm a big fan of that.

It's really what I have spent a lot
of time over the last several years

doing is building a personal brand.

And in this episode, we go a little
bit deeper into the specific work

that he is doing, his consultancy.

Thank you.

So he's a pretty much a solo operator
and we get into the details, the

pros and cons and his goals overall.

So if you missed the first
episode, you can check that out.

I encourage you, they, they kind
of flow together really well.

And without further ado, let's get
to the interview with Dre right now.

Very cool.

All right, let's move on and
talk about the SEO consultancy.

And you're working with startups, right?

So, it sounds like that was
your corporate background.

Can you talk a little bit
about what you do currently?

Like, pretty broad question, but
yeah, when people are like, I

understand SEO, what do you do?

What does your consultancy do?

Dre: So I become an extra arm.

So I guess, I guess some people call
it a fractional SEO or whatever.

Sometimes they'll call it that.

But I become a, a, more of a
consultant where I'm, I'm just like

another member of the, of a marketing
team, but for multiple companies.

And the companies I've actually was
able to establish myself in, was in the,

the B2, startup space and B2B space.

Because I mean, a lot of my, Clients
now are old colleagues of mine,

like old colleagues from other work.

You know, they're like, hey, are
you doing some consulting work?

We need some help here.

And they'll bring me into their company.

And imagine like, you know, I had
working at one company and having them

all break off to different companies.

I am now working for, you know, I have
a client for each one of those companies

and that's how it kind of pretty much
worked out and it's, it's, it's, it's

been, it's been really awesome and so I,
I feel like, you know, keep in touch with

your old colleagues, like you make sure
you have strong network when you have

a network, keep in touch with people,
I, I actually tell, like, we'll text

people just hi, random, like, hey, just
random hi, say hello, and it's, it's

funny, it's like, Oh, that's nice of you.

But yeah, I really just, just really
just was thinking about, you know,

just them as a thought, just a
random hello is, it goes a long way.

So I feel like, you know, keep in
touch with your connection, your

network old clogs you work with.

'cause in, in the end, like,
you know, they are something

that you can actually turn to.

Doug: So you got laid off.

Did you know that?

You wanted to work for yourself.

Dre: Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, during the time I was at a
company called Workday, I was there

for close to five years already.

Right.

So I was like, well, I did have,
I had a little side hustle.

I mean, doing a little side consulting,
cause they let, they let us, as long as

they weren't, we weren't working with
competitors and so, you know, there was a

point where, you know, I was like, okay,
this is cool, but I, I was wondering

like the moment when I had enough.

clients that made as much money as my
salary, you know, that'd be the time

to like probably, probably go, but
that never happened because then I went

to the startup, you know, I went to
the startup again, this was actually

from the manager who hired me from the
startup was actually an old colleague

of mine that he just recently got
hired as a head of marketing there.

It's like, so, you know, again,
Keep in touch with your connections

and your old colleagues because
they'll bring you places with them.

And I thought it was a great opportunity.

It was a startup.

I believed in, it was in the cyber
security space, which I feel like,

you know, it was a great space to
get into with with, with AI, just

with everything going on right now.

And So I went there, you know, the
salary was probably, you know, the

highest you know, I've gotten paid
than, than any of my previous companies.

And then, you know, things took a
turn where, like, there was a ton of

tech, tech layoffs here in Silicon
Valley two, about two years ago.

And then, so, my, my manager, my boss
at the time, he actually got laid

off two months after I got hired.

I was like, what's going on here?

And, and he was the
one that brought me on.

And then obviously that meant
after four months after he

got let go, I, I was let go.

And then it was just one of the things
because, you know, that's what happens.

And it's the first time I've ever
gotten laid off when people made rounds.

Cause there was other times.

through my career like they're making
rounds and layoffs, but I was I was

actually like, you know, It's kept on
and this one was happening this one that

I had just got there But I'll tell you
this interesting part is if you do great

work if you like do great work, you'll
be remembered So obviously I got laid off

from this company about you know It was
a year over a year, two years ago now.

And a year later when I decided to
start consulting, they, they hit me

back up for some consulting work.

Like, hey, you know what, you know,
would you love to, like, at least,

I know we understand if you don't
want to, like, do, do this for us,

but you know, we, we, we let, you
know, we want to still work with you.

We love your work.

And I was like, of course, I mean,
here, I'm here with no hard feelings.

I mean, I understand.

I understood what had to happen.

Like, if you can't pay me, like, I, I'm
not gonna work for free, but so, but.

They ended up hiring me, they
ended up hiring me back as a

consultant for like a few gigs.

Doug: Nice.

Okay.

So you had the skills and it sounds
like you have been able to work with

people that you already worked with.

So you're sort of a known quantity.

And I'm curious, are there any specific
challenges of like working for yourself

now and being a consultant versus,
you know, being, you know, A W2 member

of the team like you were before.

Dre: I don't, the only thing when
I found, when I started working for

myself, I actually found it was like,
it was, it was freaking awesome.

I had like, I hadn't so
much more time to myself.

Cause you can still get a lot every, you
can get all the same amount of work done.

Like if you work on one project a whole
day you know, for, for our clients

that would maybe take the week to do
is like, you get the whole week for

free to yourself, I mean, like if
you just go hard on, on, on certain

things, cause sometimes, and, and.

I found that like really really refreshing
just being able to have free up more

time and work on my own time because
also there's times Where like maybe I

can't sleep and I'll just be up like
all night working on a certain project

And then I'll fall asleep and have
the whole next day to myself, right?

I guess no, no real the only challenge
is now Oh, I'll tell you this one

challenge the moment that you get
too many clients as a consultant

is a time you would have to take a
break Think about becoming an agency.

I've almost hit that point But then I
had some clients kind of like, you know,

leave me so I kind of took the work
back down So so i'm at that balancing.

I might actually at the right
balance right now, but I guess like,

you know a ton of Surge of like
people that want to work with me.

I have to really think
about starting an agency.

Doug: Okay.

That's a, that's a big one.

Maybe we can talk through
it a little bit here.

For me, I, well, I'm different
than you in a lot of ways.

Cause I was like, I don't
want to have clients.

And you're like, okay, like
you're doing client stuff.

But I also, I didn't want to have.

A big team or anything.

And so I just have a couple of freelancers
that help me out with a couple of things.

So I'm curious for you, Dre, so
you're, you're potentially like,

if you load up the pipeline, if
you get a couple more gigs, it's

more work than you could handle.

So.

You have to hire people,
thus becoming an agency.

What, what do you personally want?

Like when you think about it, are you
like, I want to have a team or do you

think I want to be a little bit leaner?

Dre: I like to be, I
like being a lot leaner.

I mean, I, cause again, I would love
to, I mean, if I can clone myself

and give them the quality of work,
I mean, right now it's because.

The relationships I have, I feel like if
I, the clients I currently have now, for

my colleagues, I don't think they want
to see one of my employees in meetings.

They want, you know, they got me
because, to be there for them.

So, I guess, you know, if I do start
that, my newer clients that come in,

would possibly, like, have, maybe
have them front facing, you know,

just, Just, just so we can get that
established, but yeah, but I mean,

again, I mentioned like my core
clients are from like past colleagues.

So they do kind of like expect me
to be there and they, you know.

Doug: Okay.

That totally makes sense.

And then, you know, the other way
they talk about, you know, if you're

a solo operator and you wanted to
keep it that way, the other way to

scale is to like raise your prices
because your demand's too high, right?

So you got to meet the supply and demand.

So is that, is that the
option you may opt for?

Okay.

Dre: Yeah, no, exactly.

That's, that's exactly the thing.

I mean, I'd rather have five
clients paying, you know,

what, 10 grand a piece a month.

I mean, that, that's, that's
so much more to, I mean, I can,

yeah, I'd rather have it that way.

If, if that was the case,
if I could have it my way.

Yeah.

I would love to do that way.

You know, sometimes you actually give
your colleagues the hookup price already.

So it's like, I don't know
if I can tell you this much.

I mean, my hookup price is still
a still good amount, but I mean,

it's, it's, it's, it's yeah.

Doug: Well, maybe they get more funding
and then things open up or whatever.

So, okay.

So obviously we've been talking about
your video show and, You have a personal

brand is there has there been a benefit
so far From doing the show to landing

new clients and that sort of thing

Dre: Yeah, definitely.

I feel like that's what that's my
what build my personal brand was I

guess, you know through the live show
I mean, I I wouldn't be I guess not.

Maybe like some of my colleagues may
have not known I was doing this or you

know, 'cause I would made it top of mind.

'cause like they, oh they know
I was the SEO guy and I would

always show up on their feed.

So like I would be the first
person they thought of.

They needed an SEO
within their new company.

So I feel like being able to
produce content consistently and

just really, really like perfecting
it and becoming like more like.

Getting professional grade and like,
you know setting up your studio.

I I mean like my studio was like,
um, I was doing it in my living room.

It was decent It had books in the
background whatever but this time I kind

of really purposely built out my studio
in a room And put some time into it.

So being you know, I feel like your
brand should really really Your

personal brand is like your, kind
of your first impression, right?

So that's why, like, every time I hop on a
Zoom with a potential client and they see,

like, my setup, they're like, oh, wow.

I mean, so I did that on purpose.

Like, I wanted to show, like,
you know, like I'm in business.

But yeah, the personal brand was
developed for my show, throughout

the content I was creating.

And I would always, again, I would always
repurpose and take clips from everything.

Posted on LinkedIn, Twitter, actually.

Oh, I have a client that actually
found me on Twitter of all places.

Like I thought, like, I never thought
Twitter would bring me a client.

But they said they found me through
Twitter and I was like, Oh, I don't

even have that much followers on there.

And they found me through Twitter
and that was pretty awesome.

It's actually a good
playing client as well.

Doug: Interesting.

So it was repurposed content on Twitter.

Dre: Yeah, so every time I post,
it's basically just taking some

of the, so on my show, I divide
it into different segments.

So in the very beginning, I go, hey, in
one minute or less, how do you, does Doug

get rank on page one of Google, right?

So that becomes a one minute clip.

I, and I see that's all, all my, And
at the very end, I go for all those

SEO professionals out there that want
to get into the game, you know, you

want to become an SEO professional,
what would your tip be to them?

So that again becomes
another clip I repurpose.

So those two clips from every show are
two, two mini clips that can actually

promote the big show, you know, the
main show that I syndicate everywhere.

It was Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook.

Yeah, those are three places.

Got it.

And YouTube.

Yeah, YouTube, of course.

Doug: So when you were just starting.

The consulting how did you arrive
at your your pricing and the rates

that you were going to charge?

Obviously you have to pay the bills
But like you said you had like you

were sort of direct contacts former
colleagues with some of the folks So

you were giving them probably a deal
especially when you're getting started.

You're like I just I need some We need
some references out there and all that.

So how did you set up the pricing?

Dre: I mean, I just went, I just
went, took my, my, my price.

I mean, what I was making
at my job and doubled it.

And so, and so like I just doubled it
and then I worked down from there and I

was either making more or eventually the
same thing I was making prior to that.

And.

And then, but I kind of
switched that around.

So that, cause I was working at it, like,
that was kind of like the hourly thing.

But now I kind of like, I've, after
reading Alex Hormozy's I think probably,

what's the one, he has one where it's not
the sales one, but it's like a product,

when you productize, productize your
actual, productize your service, right?

So instead of me saying an
hour, I say, here's a package.

So I have two packages now, right?

What, like when that's like, you
know, let's say 1500 and 3000 a month.

And then when the package
where you sell it, like.

If you, if you pay six months in
advance, you know, six months in

advance, that's what I'm trying to sell.

So I'm trying to sell, trying to
sell the six month package, you know,

at a discount, uh, all the time.

Because you want to get
that money up front.

Doug: Okay, got it.

And actually specific question,
especially people that are like sort

of on the edge, maybe they've done some
consulting and I know occasionally when

I work with a company, they're like,
all right, you got to invoice this.

And then it's like 30 or 45 days
after that, there's like all

these terms that come with it,
but you and I are we're bad asses.

So we're like, no.

You got to pay me up front.

Like I'm not, I'm not
doing this other thing.

Right.

So it's like, there's other
people that I could work with.

So we're going to do it
my way or take a hike.

So how do you do it when
you have to deal with that?

Dre: Well, I, I give in because what
I do, I was actually like, I was

actually like, I kept on sending a
reminder and there's cause I'd say

like after, after, after the due date,
I'll send them reminder one week.

Then after one week, I'll
start sending it every day.

And then when the client
says Hey, just a heads up.

Yeah.

We do net 30.

So you don't have to keep reminding me.

Cause I'll go, you should have told
me that I would, I would not kept them

doing that, but I mean, I don't mind, but
there's some times, this is one thing I

learned and this is actually brought up a
good point because there's one thing when

I very, when I first started consulting
and I was depending on the money.

And I, you know, I say that the
invoice is due on the first.

of every month.

And then, you know, I have mortgage
to pay, let's say like on the 15th.

And I, you know, I kind of
like broke down to my client.

I was like, Hey, you know, you're like,
I have very, very small set of clients

because I want to focus on your work.

And I just want to let you know, I was
like, you know, I really depend on timely

payments from you because I mean, yeah,
it's just, it's just my life right now.

So, and they, they, they totally got it.

See, I mean, they, they totally felt me
totally felt, I mean, I was very, I was

very sincere about it because like, I
need to pay some of my bills because I

was literally sitting late off, you know.

Doug: Okay.

And I think, yeah, you, you can't
discount, you know, just being

straightforward and, you know, they read
between the lines and it's like, yeah,

we gotta, we gotta pay the mortgage.

Like we have to pay insurance.

Like there's stuff to
run the business as well.

And sometimes you do
have to, to deal with it.

And.

You know sometimes Understand those
terms up front I would say so it's

like the net 30 or sometimes it's 45 I
think it's rarely 60, but I think there

might be companies if there's like hard
goods involved or something Oh, yeah

Dre: I mean, yeah, I would I would even do
past 45 because i'm like hey if I did the

work within at least when I bill You at
least get paid for the work I did within

that month if you know that for a net
30 Um totally totally understand that.

But yeah, it's 45 and 60.

That would be way too far for me

Doug: Yeah, that'd be tough.

Okay.

So I think we're probably at a time
where we got to wrap it up, Dre.

So, it sounds like the
consultancy is going awesome.

You have more freedom.

You're working exactly with the
clients you want to work with.

You're earning more money in less time.

Are there any, you know, hiccups or any
other things you're dealing with right

now, running it that are on your mind?

Dre: At the time, I feel like I s When
it comes towards like the end of the

month, you'll get, if you know, this is
where I probably would need help, because

towards the end of the month, this is
where everyone wants all the reports, they

want everything, they're getting it set
up for their, their, their, their, their

teams and stuff like that, so like, you
know, because when the first, towards the

end of the month, and the beginning of
the month, there's always really, really

times where like, I'll probably lose
some sleep of it, because you know, I

actually have to kind of grab, you know,
like whatever metrics they're looking

for and stuff like that, but, you know,
again, that's something, you know, I

just, Figured out just now that I could
possibly hire someone to help me do.

Which is, which is actually
like, you know, again, you

shouldn't be afraid to hire.

You shouldn't be afraid to spend money
if it's gonna free you up some time.

I always feel like, you know,
I find so many people scared

to invest money in themselves.

It boggles my mind.

Because when you invest money in
yourselves, you get it all back through

your taxes and, and you just make
yourself so much more, I don't know,

you just really up level yourself.

Doug: Yeah, what you gave the perfect
example, like you're buying back your

time, like, you know, we could buy
stuff and we talked about camera gear

and the other section and all that.

But I mean, really, if you could buy
back two or three hours for the last two

weeks of the month or something where
you're like, okay, here's the SOPs for

like creating the reports or whatever.

And then maybe it's 80 percent done,
but still that saved you a couple hours.

Like it's not going to be perfect.

It still deems to.

The Dre fine touches and
polish it off and all that.

But yeah, you can
certainly save some time.

I mean, there's probably
the crazy thing sometimes.

People are better at doing the task than
you are once you get out of the way.

Dre: Yeah, exactly.

I mean, I mean, I'm not much, I mean, I
understand and licks, but I'm pretty sure

there's some other analysts out there.

That's a lot better than me.

And that can actually pull these
things and pull these insights.

Doug: Right on.

Okay.

Dre, this has been amazing.

We're going to link up to all the
places so people can get to it, but.

If there's, uh, you know, one
single spot that people should

head to, where might that be?

Dre: One single spot to
find me is on LinkedIn.

I'm very active on there.

LinkedIn.

com slash IN slash Paul Andre.

I mean, you can also just
visit my website, paulandre.

com for all my links to other places
like my show, the SEO video show, which

I go live at 12 PM Pacific Standard Time.

You can see all my branding.

I brand everywhere.

Doug: That's awesome.

It's a bit

Dre: of a background.

Doug: I know I was going to say I
need one of the signs in the back.

My, my setup looks there's just
guitars and junk laying around here.

So

Dre: you have a black background.

That's just like a TV.

If you just put a TV back there
and just put like, yeah, put a

logo, it looked like a cool signs.

So just put a black, you
know, the TV back there.

That's

Doug: a good idea.

All right.

It's

Dre: just a TV and I have a laptop
connected where it just, I can

put whatever I want on there.

So I put other sponsors on there.

I can play like certain things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's

Doug: cool.

All right.

It's much simpler than I thought.

Okay.

All right.

We'll link up.

We'll link up to everything so people
can check it out and we'll talk soon.

Thanks a lot.

Dre: All right, brother.

Doug: Thanks a lot to Dre and be
sure to check out the SEO video show.

He does it every single Friday at, I
think it's noon Pacific time, but check

what, check the link in the description
here, we'll link up to it so you can go

have a look yourself and you can always
watch the replays later, really amazing.

Uh, what he's built over there.

YouTube is certainly a grind doing
live streams is difficult and

it has its own like form of fun.

You get a little.

A little bit of the jitters before
you go live and all that stuff.

But, but anyway, super fun interview.

Dre's awesome.

Appreciate you checking out this episode.

If you dig the show, please
do leave a review out there.

It helps out.

It gives people faith that they would
want to check out the show as well.

So thanks a lot.

Have a great day and we'll
catch you on the next episode.