Ranking Revolution

Doug: Hey, what's going
on in this episode?

I chat with Olga czar.

I've known Olga for a few years now,
and we always have great conversations.

It's interesting to see how her
career online has progressed.

So as normal, these interviews
are divided into two parts.

The first part, we talk about SEO
audits, getting into the nitty gritty.

And this is kind of how she really
took off and her brand took off.

So we'll get into all the details,
including, like I said, the nitty

gritty of actually doing an audit.

And we talk about the pricing.

We talk about the scope of the work
that she does and extremely detailed.

You're going to love this episode.

If you are into.

Detailed auditing and it was
cool to hear the backstory.

So I'm not going to go on for too long
I want to highlight part two is about

growing an seo blog starting a podcast
Utilizing social media speaking at

conferences and generally growing a
brand So if you dig part one, you're

definitely going to want to check out
part two as well Without further ado.

Let's get to the interview with olga czar

olga, how's it going today?

Good to see you.

Olga: Yeah, very nice to see you.

I think long time no see.

So it's, it's going perfect.

I think this is like the busiest time in
my entire SEO career, but I'm very happy.

It's fun.

So, and tell me, how are you doing?

How is your new show?

Doug: Good, good.

Yeah.

Ranky revolution is doing well.

I.

Basically get to talk to my friends and
do a couple of solo episodes out there.

And yeah, it's super fun.

I love podcasting and YouTube
and the combo of the two.

So I don't want to talk about myself too
much today, and I want to hear from you.

You have been busy and.

I think you, you spoke at a couple
of conferences recently, you're,

you're making the rounds, but
this part one of the conversation

is going to focus on SEO audits.

And I, I feel like, and you can correct
me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's

sort of been your bread and butter
from, you know, growing your blog and

getting started and spreading the word.

You had a very thorough and
technical SEO audit process.

And then that's been sort of
the, Core flagship product

of of the services you offer.

So is that roughly accurate?

Yeah.

Olga: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's very, very accurate
because like it's, it started

like at the agency kind of year.

So I've been in SEO, SEO for like,
I don't know, 12 years or so.

I work at SEO agencies for For like
seven plus years at some point after a

couple of years, it kind of became clear
to me that I like all the thing, uh,

better because I am this type of person.

I have this hyper focus.

I like to analyze things.

I like to spend a lot of time doing
one thing, not jumping from one

thing to the next and My employer
at the time, they were very kind

of, I would say I'm empathetic.

They understood my needs and at some
point they they told me that I, all I can

do is auditing and I think for three or.

Five years at this agency, all
I was doing was doing audits and

they had like a very nice process.

They had all the tools.

So I really learned that craft then
there and then, of course, I became

an independent SEO consultants and I
started sharing my knowledge on my blog.

And I was talking about audits as well.

And this is kind of how it all started.

Fast forward to today.

I still offer audits, of
course, in depth SEO audits.

And this is what now kind of an
SEO audit is usually the start of

my cooperation with any client.

Most of the clients I have now
They came here for an audit.

I created the audit and then they
decided to stay with me because there

are so many things I uncovered that
they need me to supervise the audit.

So that's why I have this, those
monthly SEO clients as well.

So monthly SEO.

And audits bread and
butter as of now, mostly

Doug: so many follow up questions.

So I don't want to harp too long on
this, but you described it pretty well.

Like you have a personality that
enjoys the auditing process.

Cause some people would think
about the very long spreadsheet

or checklist or whatever.

You have to go through and then
all the steps and sub steps that

you have to do to do an audit.

Is there any other characteristic of your
personality that helps you do an audit?

Cause it's not a good fit for everyone.

So anything else obvious to you?

Why you like auditing?

Olga: Uh huh.

Yeah.

So, it kind of recently I learned that I
have a, a, ADHD and this is this trait.

One of the traits of
that is that I like to.

Get into this hyper focus and I can like
spend hours, days, weeks doing one thing.

And I guess this is one of the, one of
the things why I liked SEO auditing.

I am also like very introvert.

I like to like sit in my own room with
my headset, my music without people and

auditing allows me to do that perfectly.

I can enjoy my music and do.

All and, and just do audits like the
entire day without switching focus from

one thing to the next, because like
switching, switching tasks is something

I have always had a lot of problems with.

I was, it was also very problematic
to me when I was at the SEO agency

to when, when I was doing one thing
focusing and someone like called

me on teams, Olga, I need this.

Olga helped me with that.

They kept kind of distracting me.

And that's why at some point my
employer said okay, I understand,

Olga, you do not work this way.

You should do audits.

And then when I started working at
home without the distraction of other

people talking, it kind of became a
game changer and it allowed me to,

I think, really become, well, At
that, because, because this is part

of my personality doing all this.

Doug: The good part is it sounds
like the clients are coming to you

because they know there's a problem
and they know they need an audit.

Yeah.

Do you find you need to educate
them on the value they're

going to get from an audit?

Or do they already know because they found
your material, maybe your blog post about

audits, for example, how does that look?

Do you have to teach the
client or potential client what

they're going to get out of it?

Olga: Yeah.

So at the agency, at the agency part very
often I had to prepare a presentation.

I had to like actually sell the idea
of an audit to a client, convince

them why it is, why it can help
them so that they can sell it.

In the case of my own SEO consultancy
I don't have to do that fortunately

because I am not a sales person.

Everyone that is coming to me,
they came to me through either

YouTube or my blog my blog posts.

Usually it is blog posts,
YouTube or LinkedIn.

And they have already like
watched a bunch of videos.

They, they read my, like usually
very, very long and detailed guides

and they, they are sold already.

They know that they need it
and then, and they just want to

like, Talk about details, whether
I am available, the pricing.

Sometimes they want a discovery call
to like, make sure we are a good match.

But fortunately I don't have to
convince them because it already

like the, the relationship everything
is like set up differently if

it is the client coming to me.

Knowing they need me instead of me being
desperate, trying to sell that, sell

to them, which I don't know how to do.

Doug: Right.

And I know you probably get a bunch of
emails like I do because you have your

podcast and your YouTube channel and
people are emailing you telling you that.

You need to, your SEO is bad.

Olga: Oh, yeah, definitely.

Hey,

Doug: your SEO is bad.

Like, I can help you with your SEO.

And it's the most misdirected kind of
pitch because we obviously know SEO and

they have no idea who they're pitching.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think even,

Olga: yeah, I think even Google
receives those messages that, uh, you

should improve your SEO very often.

They they find some random keywords and
send an email saying you rank on position.

I don't know, 25 for this keyword.

There is a huge missed opportunity.

I am aware that my blog
potentially I could rank better.

I could have a lot more traffic.

I could work on some of those
keywords, some of those guides, but

the reality is I don't have time.

I wish I could, but with the amount of
traffic I have now, which is I think

around 1000 or so unique visits per day
it is enough to keep me very busy as busy.

I think I am as busy that I don't
really have to, I don't, I cannot

really take on new clients.

Usually there is a long wait list.

For an audit, usually it is 6 8 weeks.

I cannot take someone, someone
comes to me and I start

working the other the next day.

Unfortunately, this is, this
is not possible at this moment.

Doug: Right.

So that means there's a
big opportunity out there.

So a couple of things we're, we're
actually going to talk about the funnel

design and the audience building that you
did, because you covered something really.

Special there where you
said you don't have to sell.

You don't have to educate the client.

You have your blog, you have your YouTube
channel where people know that they want

to work with you already, or maybe they
saw you speak at a conference and then

they checked out more of your stuff.

So they're already fully engaged.

So we're going to, we're going
to come to that in the part.

Two of the interview, we're not
going to go deep into the step

by step of the SEO audits because
you have covered that elsewhere.

So we'll link up to that.

Um, but as far as the process goes,
is there any little tips that you can

give assuming someone has Already read
your blog post and looked at a few of

your videos and they're like, okay,
I want to start doing some of these

SEO audits, maybe on a smaller scale.

Cause the thing is like, like you said,
there's so many people that need audits.

You have a six to eight week wait list.

So there's a, there's
a big market out there.

So any small tips about folks
wanting to do these SEO audits?

Olga: Uh huh.

So I would say like, when I was
starting out I was like selling

different types of audits.

I had like a quick audits I had
like, I think technical audits.

EAT audits, I don't even
remember, a lot of types.

Then kind of, looking at who is
coming to me, what people need I

changed my proposition a little bit.

I think, I'm not sure if it is
fully ref Reflected on the side.

If it isn't, I will, I will update it.

I now basically only offer in depth
SEO audit that is kind of the audits of

everything, all the aspects, technical,
EEAT, speed, uh, content on page.

It's kind of reviews your site
from all the SEO angles and gives

you like the full picture of
where you stand in terms of SEO.

So, what your next steps should
be, where you are lacking.

Because those smaller audits, especially
technical ones, unless there was

like a fatal technical issue that was
preventing the site from being indexed,

couldn't really move the needle.

Because Rarely, technical things
really, really are that impactful.

And with that holistic approach,
I can always find a ton of things

to improve a ton of opportunities,
a ton of even kind of quick fixes.

And those audits usually lay the
grounds of a, of a solid as your

strategy for a year for Half a year.

So now, basically, it is only in depth
as you audit and traffic drop analysis.

Basically, they still sometimes
they are combined together,

depending on the client.

Doug: Are there any specific
tools or apps that you use that

are critical to do these audits?

Olga: So, a bunch of tools.

I always I always start any audit
with, with a like kind of a manual

review, simply browsing the site as
if I wasn't an SEO, checking it on my

phone checking it using like different
Chrome extensions, SEO extensions

that quickly let me check some SEO
elements like Chrome Web Developer.

So this is always like the first part.

And very often it it, it
already gives me a lot of ideas.

I can also give a lot of tips to a person
who, who just wants like a quick review.

Sometimes it happens during the discovery
call, but then The time, the next logical

step is to obviously go through Google
Search Console and Google Analytics.

Google Search Console is probably
the most important because like

all the technical crawling issues,
indexing issues, performance

ranking, all the stuff that Google
is seeing and reporting on is there.

So Google Search Console
is like essential tool.

And of course, crawlers.

So depending on the size of the
site, if it is a small site, I

can use a desktop based crawler.

So it is usually Screaming
Frog or SideBolt or both.

Sometimes I crawl the site with
multiple crawlers to get more data.

get a better picture.

But of course, you have to be wary of
not killing the site, depending on on the

server, its server, its server settings.

There are different like
kind of nuances here.

In the case of a bigger site,
a cloud based crawler usually

is better, so JetOctopus.

If the site has any JavaScript
functionality, and most of them do, you

have to do JavaScript rendering as well.

And then of course all those basic
SEO tools like SEMrush, Ahrefs,

to kind of see the visibility.

You can also like plug those tools,
including Google Search Console, into the

crawler like Screaming Frog, so that you
can just combine all this data into one.

You can also connect, um, PageSpeed
Insights API to Screaming Frog,

so you can have the totally
full picture with one crawl.

So that would be, I would say, like
the basic, the basis, but of course

there are a ton of other tools.

There is also like Quora, I am talking
about a lot, which is probably better

for on page SEO than for auditing per
se, but it can also help with with

an audit because very often during
the audit, I have the on page SEO

section and I check if the site is
even optimized for any keywords, if

any keyword mapping has been done.

Very often it hasn't, so cool.

This is where I also use Cora to
kind of show the potential, the

opportunities that that there are for,
for the client in terms of homepage.

Doug: So this is sort
of a two part question.

The, what, what's sort of the ideal client
That you're looking for and you could

just make up an average of like, you know,
the size of the business, the number of

pages, just a couple of characteristics.

So we have an idea.

And the real question is like, how long
does it take you to do the average audit?

So.

Who's like sort of your
ideal, most average client.

And then who, how long does it take
you to do that sort of an audit?

Olga: Okay.

So the, the, the ideal client is usually
like small or average size website.

E commerce, huge websites with
millions of pages usually are

harder to audit you, to crawl, you
sometimes cannot even crawl them.

So I would say a couple of hundred pages
or up to a thousand would be ideal.

The site on WordPress or some CMS I
know and the client who is willing

to actually implement the changes
or is willing to trust me enough

to give me access to the site to
maybe implement some of the changes.

It, it all depends on the client.

Sometimes in the case of clients
with WordPress, I also trust them.

Do some changes on the side.

So the client that trusts me
and does not question my ideas.

There is of course, of course,
a risk always with making any

changes, but they have to trust me.

So, so I would say those things and
the client who isn't like looking for

cheap fiber type of SEO, they will
pay me 500 bucks and they will send

me 100 emails per day requiring like
100 percent of my attention every day.

The client that understands that
it is my time and it costs, and

my experience also costs, and that
an SEO audit is a long process.

So, the second question, depending
again, on the size of the site

it may be 20 hours, but I also
did audits that took me 80 hours.

I think the The biggest one
was around, I think 100 hours.

So, if I, if I'm going
to spend like two weeks.

I have to be paid for that, right?

So unfortunately, those things come
at a price, because the level of

depth, the level of recommendations
I provide is very, very deep.

These are usually very long Google
documents with screenshots, screenshots,

recommendations, links to like,
spreadsheets with specific examples.

And the client has to have time and
willingness, willingness to go through

that and actually work on those as I
suggested in the order I suggested.

So that would be my answer.

Doug: All right.

And do you, so are you able to talk
about pricing and the packages and stuff?

Okay, great.

Yeah,

Olga: sure, sure.

Doug: So we.

We have a big range here.

So it sounds like around 20 hours for
like an average maybe a little bit more.

I mean, I could imagine it
could creep up a little bit.

So talk about the package
or packages that you offer.

Is this like a flat rate
project based situation?

Or is it blended where
it's partially hourly?

Is it fully hourly?

Cause I could see a situation where
you get started and then you're like,

Oh shit, this is going to take four
times as long as the average one.

And I could.

Create a significant problem for
your whole workflow and your sanity.

So how do you, how do you
design these packages?

Olga: Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually, I had a situation
like not that long ago.

The time not, not long ago where I
heavily underestimated the project.

And when I got to doing that, it
turned out that like five times

more time and money is needed.

But it doesn't happen very often,
I usually am okay at estimating.

So I would say the standard SU in
depth, SU audit starts with, at around

5k, and it can go up to even 10k.

15, 20 K.

If it is like a huge e commerce website
that has a ton of problems, millions

of URLs because sometimes investing
those even 20 K into an audit and me

fixing the things, the things that
makes them lose millions of dollars

is, is nothing like I had this, this
situation a couple of months ago,

a huge e commerce store came to me.

And Google.

They said Google is non indexing them.

They have a ban and they're
losing millions of dollars.

And, uh, they said they
did nothing to cause it.

Google is kind of bad at them and,
uh, in reality, it at first sight,

it looked that they are right.

There was no no index, there was no
manual penalty, nothing of that sort.

But when I kind of checked into in
Google Search Console, I checked the

rendered source code, which is what
Google sees after rendering JavaScript.

Actually, in the rendered code, there
was a a redirect to old AMP version

of the page, which had a no index.

So basically Google was given the
information that the site should be no

index and, and Google kind of listened.

And with that one fix I
saved them a ton of money.

So sometimes.

The price is high, but the ROI
of that price is even higher.

Of course, in the case of smaller
sites, like sometimes bloggers come to

me with small sites, usually affiliate
site that was like heavily penalized.

I won't charge them that much because
I understand they may not have

that budget and sometimes, and I
may not need that, that much time.

Regarding as what's in the package.

So I usually, when I say when I send
them the pricing, I usually say it

will take me around that many hours.

My hourly rate is that,
but this is an estimate.

So I, I may take longer or it may take
me fewer hours, but the price for this

project is that, and I usually have
some buffer for unexpected things.

And I inform the client about, about this.

And in the package, they get
a very long Google document

with, as I said, screenshots,
recommendations like the priority.

All those things, there is also a
spreadsheet listing all those things

from the audit with links to those
specific headings in the audit and

in the spreadsheet, there is like,
priority scale uh, easy, easy, um,

how easy it is to implement and
potential SEO impact and status.

So when the client is working on
those things, they can kind of update

the spreadsheet so that I know where
they are, if I can verify something.

And of course, there is usually the
entire folder with with spreadsheets,

spreadsheets, listing specific
URL, specific, specific issues.

And I also record after finishing
that, I record a loom video where

I walk the client through the audit
through the entire Google drive folder.

I share with them, kind of tell
them what they can find where

and like the general, uh, final
thoughts, next steps for the audit.

And after that they can book
a call with me hour or 90, 90

minutes where during which we
discuss the audit and the results.

next steps and what they want to do next
who will be implementing implementing.

And at that point, very often they decide
to hire me for, for the next month or for

a year, depending on depending on what I
actually find on their site in the audit.

Doug: Great answer.

A couple of quick follow ups as we.

Wrap up this section.

We could probably do a
10 part series on life.

I

Olga: think so.

Doing this sort of

Doug: thing.

So you mentioned that you
underestimated the work for a

particular client by about five times.

Yeah.

So what did you do when you realized it?

Do you go back to the client and
say, Hey, I actually made a mistake.

Here's why I made a mistake.

The previous estimate.

Is not going to work like
can we renegotiate this?

How did you handle it?

Olga: So, I got stressed a lot.

And I actually, uh, went back to the
client and I said that, uh, after

spending 10 hours, I learned those
things, which I couldn't know when I was

doing the proposal because I, I didn't,
I didn't have the data I had then.

Maybe it was a little bit my bad.

Maybe I should spend more
time doing the proposal.

At first, the client wasn't really happy,
but I think they understood that I, I was

like, my intentions weren't bad, and that
I, I was very detailed in my explanations

regarding what actually needs to be
done, how many people, Other problems

there are on the site, which I didn't
anticipate and they agreed to and, and

I offered that for any extra work that
goes beyond those hours, I will charge

them hourly at a slightly discounted rate
that normally, and they agreed to that.

So it was kind of a
compromise, I would say.

Great.

This one worked well,

Doug: right?

Yeah.

And I think like you said, you
didn't have any ill intentions.

So they were, they understood that
you were very detail oriented.

And the thing is like from a, from
my external perspective, obviously

it would be more stressful if
I was actually dealing with it.

But if you have a wait list of clients
and you're like, okay, I undercharge for

this one client and I can cut my law.

I could refund the money, say, Hey,
this contract is null and void.

Whatever your escape clauses and
your contract, you get out of it.

You lose 10 hours, but you
don't lose the other 40, right?

Like you could have just cut your losses.

It's a sunk cost and move on.

That client may not work with you again,
but in the long run, you have a wait list.

And you could just keep going
on, but luckily it worked out.

So that's a great scenario.

Olga: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Doug: Okay.

As we are wrapping up here, are there
any like differentiating factors for

your SEO audits versus other companies,
other agencies doing them out there?

What makes sure is a little
bit different and better?

Olga: Uh huh.

I would say this kind of obsessive
focus on SEO, like I am, I have

like extreme attention to details.

I very often notice things that
other people do not notice.

This is kind of, I don't know, this
is like some autistic tendency.

I'm not sure, but this is
like, I have that in many in

other areas of life as well.

So I think this is, this is something that
makes them different and this holistic

approach, like very, very holistic.

I look at the site from
many different angles.

Like I also look at conversion rate
optimization, even though it has

nothing to do with SEO, but I look
at those other elements as well.

And I never blindly follow what the
tool is telling me because those

tools often provide recommendations.

And I have seen those cheap audits,
automated types of audits that clients

came to me with and they showed
me what other agencies send them.

And this was basically very long,
100, 100 pages audits fully automated

from, for example, SideBulb.

And this audit is irrelevant
because the tool does not

have the context of the site.

We have ai, but still it
is not that advanced yet.

So, those automate automated audits.

Automated recommendations usually
have, have nothing to do with reality.

They always have to be
like screened by real.

experience human brain.

So, uh, and my recommendations, I
always follow my own checklist, my own

process using the tools, not vice versa.

I always review at the end what the
tool is suggesting in case maybe I

missed something, but it is never
the tool dictating me what to check.

So I would say this and like
the, the amount of time I spent.

And if.

And the dedication because I become
hyper focused and I become, I

start obsessing and, uh, I want
the client actually to succeed.

And, uh, I allow them to reach
out to me with any questions.

My, my like monthly clients,
they also have my WhatsApp.

So I allow them to kind of get in
touch with me when they really need it.

I try to keep the balance between
life and work, but I think this more

personal, personalized approach is
also something that the clients who

come to me value, especially if they
had Bad experiences with SEO agencies.

Doug: Perfect.

Okay.

I think that's a good,
it's a good wrap up here.

And I think, you know, people, people
should obviously see the big opportunity

here again with the wait list that
you have, but you put a lot of time

into I guess generating the, the wait
list and creating SEO sly and the

YouTube channel and all that stuff.

So we'll get into that.

Before we do move on, is there any final
thoughts about the audit process or

anything like that that you wanna mention?

And we will link up to all your auditing
resources so people can kind of take

a look at what you have going on.

But any final thoughts?

Olga: So I would say something
I, I already said never.

Never trust the tool,
what it is telling you.

Always use your human brain when auditing.

And I would recommend people to subscribe
to my newsletter because in my newsletter,

I will be sending some coupon codes for
my upcoming Course all about SEO auditing.

I think now maybe this course is already
live and in this course I teach my

entire process from start to finish.

And if you finish that course and you are
willing to learn, experiment, you will be

able to basically re recreate what I have
done and charge people like 5K per audit.

So this is the, the only way
for me to kind of scale my.

Time and my knowledge, because I have
just as much time in a, in a day.

That's why I decided to go that route,
creating SEO site pro where I teach

people my techniques and the course,
which also as you audit mastery

course, which teaches all things.

Perfect.

Doug: We'll link up to that stuff.

So it's easy to find.

Thanks to Olga and we'll link up to all
the places that you can connect with her.

She's again, very approachable,
like almost all of the guests.

She's a regular attendee at conferences.

So feel free to, uh, go and say
hello, let her know you heard her

on the ranking revolution podcast.

And if you enjoy part one of this
interview, you're definitely going

to want to check out part two.

And really how someone was able to
grow a brand pretty much from scratch.

And use all the tools that she could
slowly layering on more things.

So very interesting conversation
and you can go back and sort of

analyze when she did certain things
and follow along with her story.

So thanks a lot.

And actually quick note, if you
haven't left a review out there

would really appreciate it.

If you leave a review over on
iTunes or Spotify or wherever

you can actually leave a review.

We'll catch on the next episode.