Ranking Revolution

Welcome to the ranking revolution
podcast, your go-to source for strategies

and ideas for SEO, organic growth,
content creation and online business.

I'm Doug.

Cuttington.

I'm your host today.

We're going to talk with Alex.

Zola.

Like normal.

This is going to be
divided into two parts.

I'm testing this out.

To have just sort of shorter
episodes with two separate topic

areas with part one and part two.

Alex is a real estate
investor, but he got into SEO.

So the first part we'll talk about his
start with SEO, which was only in 2020.

And some of the things he's learned
about real estate SEO, and then

for part two, We're going to
talk about AI and how he uses AI.

To be effective in the real estate.

SEO area.

I think this is a great
industry to get into.

I know a lot of folks that are into
real estate, I'm not personally a

real estate investor, but a lot of
my friends are whether it's rental

properties or being real estate agents,
or brokers of some kind or just general

investors in commercial real estate.

There's a lot of money out there
and that's one of the benefits.

What do you know, SEO?

You can go to the industries that have
a lot of revenue floating around a lot

of money and a lot of marketing spend
and real estate is one of those verses.

You know, I wouldn't necessarily recommend
people do SEO where the potential

customers are broke college students.

Or frugal people.

They just don't have very much money to
spend, but folks in real estate, they

typically have a pretty large budget.

Anyway, this is part one
I'll link up and stuff.

So you can check out some stuff from Alex.

And if you dig the conversation and
you want to hear how Alex uses AI, be

sure to check out part two as well.

So let's get to the interview now.

Doug: Today I'm chatting
with Alex Capozzolo.

He's a real estate investor, a house
flipper, a realtor, and an SEO nerd that

has founded two real estate companies
with his childhood best, best friend.

Let's try that again.

Alex Cappizzolo is a real estate
investor, a house flipper, a realtor,

and an SEO nerd who has co founded two
real estate companies with his childhood

best friend, which is pretty cool.

You get to work with your best bud.

He owns and manages one real estate
website for each company, one in

Philadelphia and one in San Diego.

Since 2021, the websites have
generated over a thousand SEO leads.

And that means people
search for something.

They ended up on his website.

He and his partner have been
able to generate 900, 000.

Oh, this is a big number.

Let me read this exactly.

Cause we have it down to the dollar.

So 942, 822 in revenue and for fun,
Alex loves to surf, hike and travel.

So Alex, welcome to the show today.

How's it going?

Alex: Thanks for having me on Doug.

Appreciate it.

And, uh, it's going good.

Happy to be here.

Doug: Awesome.

We're going to get into some of the nitty
gritty, but I'm curious, how did you

get started with SEO in the beginning?

Alex: Circa 2020 COVID hit
sitting around my house.

Um, and this was a time when I was
running my real estate business

part time with my business partner.

Now he was also doing
it kind of part time.

We had one foot in one foot out
also doing other things that

just paid our bills at the time.

And I got furloughed for my w two job.

I was like, Hey, let's go full
time into this real estate thing.

How can we make this better grow it in a
way that kind of aligns with us and our

style wasn't really looking for the big
real estate team or anything like that

with, you know, a bunch of cold callers
and stuff, which we had done in the past.

Um, heard someone else on a podcast from
our market in Philadelphia, Philadelphia.

And we recognized the name instantly.

It's one of the, was one of
the top guys at the time.

And we knew that he got all of his leads
and did a lot of business from online.

Um, didn't really know at the, at the
time, we didn't really know the difference

between PPC, SEO and everything else
under the, underneath the umbrella.

But, um, that's what got us interested
in SEO and then just spent a couple

of months teaching myself podcasts.

networking with people, joined
a mastermind, um, and kind of

just figured some stuff out
with a lot of trial and error.

And, um, we finally started getting some
traffic to our business, to our website.

We stopped all other marketing
and just went full on with SEO.

And it's been that way since,
uh, the past four years now.

Doug: And just to be clear,
you really didn't have a

background in SEO beforehand.

Alex: No

Doug: backgrounds.

That's awesome because people that
maybe they have studied and been

obsessed and they've researched
for years and years and years, but

they haven't been able to produce.

But in your case, you had a business
already running and you had a very

clear value proposition where if you
got people in the door, If they were

the right leads, you knew you were
going to be able to convert them

into your business and make a profit
and pull in revenue like right away.

And one of the notes that we have
here to talk about is how SEO is a

little bit harder or it feels harder
at least than it used to in the past.

And the thing is the, the
context that you're looking at.

Is only about four years.

But if you think back like 10 or 15
years, it's dramatically different.

It is so different than it was, but it's
really cool that you were able to, to jump

in, apply SEO to your business directly
and get like a huge amount of value.

Of course, your time is valuable, but
the ROI must be absolutely amazing.

So let's, let's dive into a few of
the details here with realtors and it.

Real estate in general, it doesn't seem
like very many of them are using SEO or

at least visibly it doesn't feel like it.

It feels like there's more folks on maybe
social and I have a lot of friends that

are into real estate and they have a lot
of rental properties and they're, they're

always, it's a lifestyle for them, right?

They're super into real estate,
but it doesn't feel like

many of them are doing SEO.

Is that your take as well?

Is it kind of on the On the
earlier side for real estate

agents and realtors on SEO.

Alex: Yeah, it's
interesting in real estate.

Google has kind of Categorized
different sub niches of real estate.

So you have the real estate agents And
for a lot of those keywords the top three,

it's like zillow redfin and realtor.

com truly.

com ones that like You're
probably not going to outrank.

So I think off the bat like if
someone Uh, that's a realtor is

coming in with some SEO knowledge
or maybe getting some advice.

They might, they could be deterred from
that and just thinking, okay, Zillow's dr

90, you know, mega site, home light, if
that sounds familiar to people, open door,

you know, there's a lot of them out there.

So for real estate agents, I
think it's a little tougher.

We do a little bit of everything.

So we, we capitalize on stuff
like, um, properties that could

be good for rental properties that
could be good for a house flip.

Um, and I think that's helped us
at least cast a wider net, more

keywords that, you know, Redfin
and Zillow aren't showing up for.

So it's a little, it was a little easier.

We were, we just had to outrank the
other house flippers in the area to,

to kind of capture that market share.

But, um, yeah, it's a long game, SEO.

If anyone knows in like a competitive
industry or niche, so that kind of

deters people and then, um, yeah,
I mean realtors, especially when

they get started, um, there's some
stats out there, but it's like how

it's kind of like startups, right?

It's like 80 percent of them
don't make it after a year,

like three or something crazy.

And, um, SEO doesn't happen overnight
and realtors are often, they're looking

for something really cheap for marketing,
like door knocking or driving for a

dollar, like, you know, something.

lower on the expense scale.

So I think that's also
probably a reason why.

Um, yeah, probably those, the realtors
that I've seen in the industry get

involved the most are ones that
already have an established business.

They have a budget, they hire
a company cause they don't want

to learn or, you know, they just
don't have the time to learn SEO.

Um, and those are the ones that I've
seen get into it and they have the

time, they have the budget and, um,
they're just looking for one more

different marketing channel to add on.

Doug: A lot of the audience is familiar
with some of the basics of SEO, but

let's talk about what you did, especially
starting off new, knowing that you

didn't want to waste any of your time.

So let's start at the beginning.

How did you form your
plan and implement it?

And it sounds like you did most
of the work yourself, or at least

if you outsource, it was kind
of minor pieces, but how did you

develop the plan and then implement

Alex: it?

Yeah.

So this was the time when, again, I
got furloughed from my W2 and our real

estate business, which I was jumping
into full time wasn't crushing it.

Um, we would make like.

eight or nine grand a month, but
we'd spend literally like six

or seven on cold calling because
that's how we were generating leads.

So it was like this vicious cycle
of us hustling and not making money.

So when we looked at SEO, we also
didn't want to spend tons of money

starting out, um, worked out though,
you know, I was, it was COVID.

So I was chilling at home.

And then I was also not in Philly.

I lived in California and still do.

So that almost forced me to just do SEO.

What else am I going to do?

Let's try and figure this out.

So, um, yeah, I mean, a couple of
things almost bootstrapping that if

someone were to get started or how I
got my start that could help people, um,

joined a mastermind right off the bat.

I mean, the guy found me, but he,
he saw me posting in, um, this real

estate forum and it was, For sure.

Just for backlinks.

Like it was one of those forums where
you get your links in the bottom of your

footer, of your signature, if you post,
um, and we saw the same people posting

and then all kind of like came together.

So, but I mean, you can find
masterminds too, that can be helpful.

So that was super, um, super
influential getting started and did

that in the first couple of months.

And then, um, we, we
knew we needed content.

This was before AI writers, or
at least before they were good.

Yeah.

And we didn't have the budget
to, like, outsource a lot of it.

So I was writing some, and I also
wasn't that good at writing at the time.

So we're like, let's get some help.

So we put an ad on
Upwork, uh, for a writer.

Um, but it would be not for money.

It would be in exchange for like
us teaching them about real estate.

And we found someone who was
actually like, you know, super lucky.

It was a great fit.

And she wrote like probably five
different full length guides.

Like one was on Philadelphia
eviction process.

One was on the squatter laws there.

One was on, uh, like closing costs
in Philadelphia, 3000 word mega page,

ultra guides, lots of links, you know,
like Five internal links, 10 outbound

links, like super robust, beefy.

And those still like, we have to update
them for the laws and stuff, but she

wrote those in 2020, we built only a
few links to them and they still, um,

they still rank maybe number one or
like top three today for those keywords

and that without us realizing it.

We didn't, I didn't even know what
topical authority was at the time,

but I was just like, we should cover
these things cause it makes sense.

And sometimes we even do
get leads from them too.

It's like someone who has a squatter in
their rental property and Philly's like

crazy with squatters in the laws there.

Um, so sometimes people just
throw up the white flag and want

to sell it with them in there.

Um, so we get some leads from that too,
along with just the good traffic, the

local IP addresses and all that stuff.

Doug: Right on.

Let's go deeper into keywords and
it sounds like for people that are

looking for this sort of real estate
play, a lot of it is local based.

Is that a fair assumption?

And you could take advantage of
that by just being the best article.

That's the most accurate
for that locality.

Alex: Definitely.

Yep.

Yep.

Um, And Google's shifted that they like
switch it up every couple of months.

It seems for local stuff, like for
example, if you type in sell my house

without a location, without a city in
a particular city on occasion, Google

switches it up and they put national
companies there, they'll put like

open door and things like that, which
they're like a national home buyer.

But most of the time, more commonly
it's, it's local businesses.

And those Google.

does show a little preference to from
what we've seen in terms of sniping

those keywords and ranking for them.

Doug: let's go into link building.

Another big area for SEOs in general.

What tips do you have for
people after going through?

You know, you mentioned the forums a
minute ago, so kind of low hanging fruit.

And then you were able to, you know,
actually find other people doing the same

thing, which is kind of funny, but yeah,
what other link building tips do you have?

Alex: It's, I mean, it's from 2020
to today, it's very different.

So right.

10 years ago to today,
it's super different.

Um, but recently I'd say the
past, like year, what's helped

us still get good links.

that are relevant.

Um, we're a little more strict on our
quality because we feel like Google

has been more strict on their quality.

So we kind of had to keep up with that.

So, you know, our vetting process for link
is more strict than it was four years ago.

For sure.

Things like spam score, organic traffic.

Um, what, what that website ranks for.

I even get sketched out if I see a website
that's, you know, had tons of traffic six

months ago and then it's like way down.

Um, that's like a factor too, you
know, so this is all the things.

So I'd say stricter, um, stricter
criteria for which links we're open to.

And then networking has just been huge.

So, and that kind of
compounds over time, right?

It's just networking
with other link builders.

Um, make a page on your website for
guest posting and include all those

keywords, like right for us, right
for us, real estate, all that stuff.

Put your contact info.

You're going to get blown up every day.

80 percent of them are going to be,
you know, instant trash emails, but,

um, there's some gold in there too.

And people will find you that are legit
link builders and you respond to them.

You say, Hey, um, you can guest post
on my site or get a link insertion, but

there's, you know, there's no charge.

And, uh, to make this happen, I
would like something in return.

What websites are you working with that,
um, You know, you can get me a link on to

make this a trade and people are usually
decently receptive if they're legit.

Um, it's also helpful.

And again, this is what we learned over
the course of the past couple of years.

When you have two sites,
that's helpful too.

You leverage one for the other.

So you avoid, if you're doing a
link trade, you can avoid A to

A overlaps of, of link trades.

Um, and that's helpful cause some
people won't do trades with you

unless you have multiple sites and
can do the A to B to C kind of setup.

Um, and then just fostering
those, those relationships.

And SEO too, like if you've been in it
for a while, like the link, link building,

especially, it's like people are sheisty.

I feel like there's a lot of those
out there and like, it's not really

a sub niche within an industry
that's known for like giving first.

So it sounds cheesy, but like
try and just add a little more

value than the next person.

Write an email and don't sound
like, you know, be, be nice, be

courteous and try and help them out.

And, you know, go, go a little extra
mile if you think it will help.

And, um, that can lead to some
pretty solid relationships.

Doug: What metrics are you looking for
and other criteria for the quality to

make sure you're not just on a link farm
or something like that, a content mill?

Alex: Spam score, um, which I
feel like sometimes like recently

Google doesn't care as much.

I don't know.

I've heard mixed things from
people in SEO spam score.

It's like they care, they don't.

So that's still something we look at.

Um, we look at outbound links.

So if we think it's a guest post
farm, they're, they're getting

better at disguising those with spam.

Nicer looking, more normal
mom and pop websites.

So we'll look, we'll punch it into Ahrefs,
look at the outbound links that are

coming from it and type in things like
casino, CBD, VPN, porn, things like that.

And if those come up, then, um,
yeah, that's, that's a red flag, but

it could just be a guest post farm.

So those are like good tall tale signs.

And, um, yeah, I'd say those
two have been helpful lately.

Doug: Do you look at the ratio
of inbound links to outbound

links or anything like that?

Alex: Oh, we don't usually go that deep.

Have you, have you seen
that or have you done that?

And has that been helpful for you?

Doug: I've heard, I've heard that could
be good just so you know, you know,

check for the things that you mentioned
in the specific outbound links, but

then also just making sure they're
not publishing like five articles

a day with several outbound links.

A listener once emailed me.

And he was like, yeah, you know, they,
they look like they're good links.

And he sent me five that he purchased from
some company and I looked at the articles

and they were legit ish sites that got
traffic, but they were a content mills.

And I was like, they sold the same four
people links in every one of those posts.

Like it was so like, I saw them like,
and I just click through and looked.

So a couple of little things like that.

You know, the spam score, all the things
add up and I'm pretty sure there's a lot

of false positives, but if you find all
positive signs, then it's probably bad.

So,

Alex: yeah, yeah, no, those
are, those are great points.

And right.

If there's a, there's a, some
weight that's carried with your gut

feeling too, when you see those pop

Doug: up.

Anything else with the link building
aspect, is there anything that you

brought to the table from your.

Realtor experience and just working
in real estate that helped you gave

you like an unfair advantage with seo

Alex: I want to say I
can't think of anything.

Um, I mean i'd besides just being
very used to Emailing coming from you

know corporate background before it
was full full time in real estate.

Um, Did lots of emailing and lots of email
outreach so i'd say that's probably a

skill that translated to just talking to
link builders Learning the lingo and, um,

trying to make, make deals happen, even
if it's just like a little link trade.

Um, one other little tip that we've
done this year only, uh, or last year

only that's helped for link building
was, um, so I'm sure your listeners

know Harrow, help a reporter out.

If you're doing lots of that, um,
and you're getting lots of those,

then we will look at whichever
articles we were included in and

then see who else was included.

And usually it's, you know, sometimes
it's a list of the top 20 realtors

who said X about Y in the Z city.

Um, so those are like huge,
low hanging fruits to you.

You know, you reverse search
those websites, find their

people's emails, say, Hey, we're
included in the same Harold link.

We'd love to do some trades with you too.

That's a brilliant one.

Doug: Cause You know that they
understand the value in it.

And they also put in a similar
amount of time and effort as you did.

So it's like, you know, you're
dealing with people that like,

are not going to fuck you over.

And they'll probably be able to
hook you up with some pretty good

contacts, good network to be part of.

Very cool.

One thing to circle back on, you said
you were in a mastermind, was this, uh,

just a, a group mastermind versus like
a paid mastermind where someone, where

someone else is facilitating just to
clarify the, the meaning of mastermind?

For

Alex: this group, it was just
a group of people in similar

phases of their SEO journey.

Um, One guy organized it, but it wasn't
paid and wasn't it was like a one and

done kind of get together Perfect.

Doug: Okay, cool.

And I started in Mastermind when I
first started working online too.

And yeah, super cool.

Like people learn a ton I think we met
regularly for about six weeks or so

and then it ran its course, but Really?

I mean it helped me out a ton.

I was like the organizer,
but I was also like the least

experienced person in there.

So I learned a lot, but I
pulled everything together.

And then, you know, the, the group
disbanded basically, but highly

recommend a mastermind group.

The accountability is great.

You have great contacts and anything,
anything else you want to add,

Alex, about mastermind groups.

Alex: Google is so dynamic
and confusing alone.

So it will drive you crazy if you're
trying to measure your own site with only

one site and only a couple of data points,
talk to some other people who are doing

similar stuff and share, get their data.

And, um, you can learn a lot and, uh, you
know, kind of shortcut a lot of stuff.

That wraps up part one with Alex.

So if you want to see where the
conversation is going, be sure to

check out part two where we talk about
how he uses AI tools and the light.

And if you have a second,
really appreciate it.

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Thanks.