Ranking Revolution

Welcome to the ranking revolution podcast.

You go to source for strategies
and ideas for SEO, organic growth,

content creation, and business.

I'm Doug.

Cunnington.

I'm your host.

And today we're going
to talk to Tim Schmidt.

Like many of the interview episodes, we're
dividing this into two separate parts.

So there are about like
30 minutes a piece or so.

And the first part we're
going to talk about.

Running an agency working.

Within an agency founding an
agency and all those details.

And then in the second part,
we'll talk more about affiliate

marketing and teaching people.

How to.

Run a website, start a website when
we kind of have a moving target.

Because Google algorithm updates.

Make it very difficult to have like one.

Blueprint that seems to work.

Long-term.

Used to be that way, but
things have been changing.

With the March, 2024 update.

And then if you rewind the clock
and you'll look at doubtful content

update of 2023, things changed a lot.

And if you back up even more.

Really led back to AI in the
evolution of the AI tools.

So anyway, we're going to talk
about all those different things.

I'll put a link so you
can get the Tim stuff.

Of course.

And let's just get to
the episode right now.

Doug: Today I'm hanging out with
Tim Schmidt and Tim is not your

average digital marketing expert.

He's a seasoned SEO and affiliate
marketing mentor operating a

successful portfolio of websites
under the brand ice cold marketing.

And he's been in this for a long time.

Like, 20 years, which
kind of blows me away.

And we're talking like over a thousand
websites or so, but Tim's passion

extends beyond his own ventures.

He is also the founder of website rescue.

com dedicated to helping
businesses boost their online

revenue through proven strategies.

Tim's expertise doesn't stop there.

He's been a YouTube influencer, a
multimillion dollar Amazon seller,

a speaker at digital marketing
events and avid traveler, and

most importantly, He's a father.

He's raising a son and he's always in the
stands cause he has a flexible schedule

working for himself and welcome Tim.

How's it going today?

Tim: Doing great, Doug.

Thanks for having me.

Doug: And with a resume that
reads like that, I often wonder

why people are talking to me, but
I'm glad, I'm glad that you are.

So I want to talk about the very beginning
and we'll kind of lay out some sign posts.

So people know where
we're going with this.

We're kind of going to focus on
your agency work and sort of the,

the inside portion of the business.

Then we're going to talk about your
portfolio of sites and what it's like

to Try to teach people and teach people
and guide them when we have a moving

target, often with Google updates with
AI, there's a lot of changes happening,

perhaps more rapidly than they did.

But I think Tim, you have a
more insight over the 20 years

experience that you have than I do.

So that's what we're
going to get into today.

Number one, how did you get into internet
marketing and SEO and websites and

all that way back in the beginning?

Tim: It's actually a really
long roundabout story.

So I was a senior in college in
the year 2000, about six weeks into

my senior year, I accepted a job.

I was always like a tech fanatic and made
a lot of money in my dorm and apartment

off campus in college selling essay
papers before that was even a thing.

Selling anything online, just navigating
the web, doing good and bad stuff on

the internet, you know, growing up in
AOL chat rooms and stuff like that.

And I just kind of had a knack
for digging around the internet.

That led to a job offer
in Chicago with Accenture.

And I accepted that six
weeks into my senior year.

It was, you know, one of the higher
paying jobs that was out there in

the Midwest and definitely the high
salary I, any of my friends got.

So I immediately accepted that I
wanted to be a tech analyst and

go the corporate route, which
many people do in the Midwest.

, so that was in 2000.

We all know what happened with the.

com era after that.

So my start date was spring of a one
and due to the economy, it got kicked

back and they kicked it back six months.

And then it was 18 months and then it was
two years and I wasn't wanting to just

sit at home and wait for them to call me.

So they gave me a pretty sizable check
to not work for them for a couple of

years and kind of lay in the wings and
wait for the economy to rebound and have

space for me, which was really weird.

But instead of sitting around and.

Being a college kid, which I
did for a couple more months.

I'll be honest with you.

I didn't want to get out of that life.

I wasn't ready.

I answered an online ad and I was
living in Minneapolis at the time,

but it was a sales job for search
engines in Miami, Florida, and I

literally interviewed over the phone.

Got hired and packed my bags and came
down and I was so nervous about the

big move and everything and I signed
a six month lease and I never left.

I got in the space.

I helped build a company from six
people to 84 in about 18 months.

And, um, you know, due to the growth
and the kind of politics that went

into that and getting paid a lot
and then restructuring, uh, it just

decided it was my time to go on my own.

So that, that's the roundabout
way of how I got into the

wide world of web marketing.

Doug: I worked at Accenture too.

Did you really?

Yeah.

I actually worked for a little while,
but yeah, I was like, Oh, small world.

So, and it sounds like you never
actually like were deployed or went

to orientation or anything like that.

Tim: You know, when they called me back
after 18 months or so, it was, he said,

Hey, we're ready to come to Chicago and
train and then we'll get you, you know,

deployed, like you said, and you'll be
the guy that's on the streets for, you

know, four days a week and traveling
somewhere, working with companies.

That was what I was signed up to do.

I said, I'm good.

I said, you know, I'm, I'm
all set here in Florida.

I've got a thriving business.

I'm not going to close it.

And they said, okay, well, unfortunately
you signed that agreement saying that.

You know, you owe us 15 grand
for the advance we gave you,

which was just a bonus, right?

To a good faith.

And I said, all right, that's cool.

But I invested that money into
a business and it wasn't cool.

You did to me.

And we went back and forth and I
ended up talking to the gentleman

who hired me and I told him my story.

And he said, that's incredible.

Why would we ever even
ask for that money back?

Like, we're proud of you.

You didn't sit on your ass
and hang out for a while.

You did something with it.

And if you ever want to work
here, just call us back.

And I'm like, I'm pretty sure
I'll be good, but thank you.

That's cool.

That's literally what happened.

So I know you're right.

I did never step foot in there.

I had many people that did and many
people that I was friends with are

now directors there and they've worked
their way up over, you know, the 20

plus years and they're doing great.

Doug: Right.

Yeah.

And I only lasted a couple
of years, but I have a couple

of friends that stuck around.

They hate their job by the way, but
yeah, they, they're getting paid a lot

and they I think they think they enjoy
it, but like they definitely don't love

it when they still have to go travel
almost full time and have a family

at home and all that kind of stuff.

Crazy small world.

Well, I know I learned a lot when I
worked at Accenture and other consulting

companies, which was really helpful.

I didn't love it at the time, but I was
able to learn from like other mentors.

You mentioned something there
that first job you grew from

a small company to a big one.

So did you.

Have an opportunity to, you
know, build a team, hire, learn

management, all that kind of stuff.

Can you expand on

Tim: that a little?

Yeah, it was actually really wild and
it's, uh, it's amazing how we got there.

So when I came down, the company was
called web genius and they were one

of the only SEO companies out there.

And, you know, we had some competition,
like, more visibility was out

there and one of the big agencies.

A couple others out of California, but
there weren't many people doing SEO.

When you'd call people and tell them
that you could rank their site higher in

the search engines, they were like, they
were like, I thought that was just luck.

You know, like, how do you do that?

That actually exists?

Uh, it was that primitive back then in 01.

But when I got there, it was basically
a boiler room and all these guys had

come from New York City and they were
fresh off the Wolf of Wall Street thing

and they couldn't trade securities
anymore due to that whole fallout.

And they just said,
Hey, it's the wild west.

We can sell internet advertising.

And this is the biggest tech boom that
we're ever going to see in our lives.

So this is what we're doing.

The company ended up morphing
into something called beyond ROI.

Another gentleman that actually hired me,
took me with him over there after a month.

So I literally moved and was one of the
six guys on the phone getting business.

And then we moved and started a new firm.

And from there it was weird because,
you know, they were like, well,

all these guys here in wall street
make millions of dollars selling.

And we don't know who you are and
you're from Minnesota and you dress

different and you're fresh, you
know, out of the cold, we don't

know if you're going to be any good.

Well, fast forward.

Four months later, I
was the sales manager.

Seven months later, I was the
manager of business development.

So in addition to having a book
of clients, I've managed the, and

trained the entire sales staff along
the way, learned SEO because I was

in the environment every single day.

I didn't really want to, but just
organically, I was curious and my

tenure there ended because I was
really honest with you, sick and

tired of calling people like, Hey,
we, uh, grew your website traffic

from basically zero to 5, 000 a month.

And they're like, thank you so much.

You're making, we're
making us so much money.

I wanted to be on the other end
of that and be the guy at home.

I mean, I had a client in California that
would surf every day and then check in

after and be like, yeah, life's great.

We're selling so many products and I just
wanted to be on the other side of that.

So I eventually morphed that
into affiliate and e com,

which was my whole next.

15 years really, and I still do affiliate,
but e com I, um, I did until 2022.

So it's just, it really was a position
where I learned so much and then ended up

getting the processes down, um, finding
my own context to deliver the backend

and then eventually doing it myself.

Doug: Man, there's so much to unpack
here, but we only have limited time.

So I'm going to skip over about 15
years here and we're going to, we're

going to talk about your agency.

And there's a couple topics
that we can get into.

I'm going to list a
couple of them out and.

We'll see whatever like sort of peaks
your interest and then we can dig into

that one and, and kind of go through them.

So I'm looking at client acquisition
and you can also describe the agency

a little bit too, and like who you're
helping and the size of business and

all that kind of stuff, but I'm looking
at client acquisition, retention, value

proposition, and differentiation from the
services you offer, scaling the business.

building the team and pricing.

So those are kind of the broad strokes
and I'll let you think for a second.

You could talk about what website rescue.

com, like who the target market is.

So people have an

Tim: understanding.

Sure.

I work with companies in a very
wide spectrum, but for me, there's

no one I like working with more.

And that's the majority of my
clients are solo practitioners

with a small business who simply
don't have a marketing department.

And they've gone around and they've
tried different PR agencies or marketing

firms around town that kind of go the old
school way and say they can do internet

marketing, but we all know they, they're
limited, you know, and, uh, kudos to

a lot of them have gotten better over
the years, but they just simply aren't

in the trenches every single day.

Like we are with their own websites,
marketing them, they kind of learn

on the fly and test on their clients.

And that's not what I do.

I like to know absolutely everything
they do, where they make their money.

Back into keyword strategy from there.

So a lot of the people I
work with are med spas.

That's a very big niche for me.

So I know that space very well,
which I know we're skipping over,

but I was an E com for 13 years and
I owned an anti aging skincare brand.

So I ended up acquiring a lot of assets
that could help people rank, you know,

PBNs and authority sites, what have
you that were about aging and skincare.

So to me, that was a good fit because I
have the portfolio to back that up and.

Build PR relevancy links,
et cetera, from that.

But again, for me, finding someone who
has a small business that I can really

impact them versus a huge company.

And I do have one firm that's global.

I just see the impact of
what I do so much more.

So that's my focus.

And a lot of my clients
come from referrals.

You know, these guys are
network, they go to events.

They meet guys they compete with
that they go out with for drinks

after learning the newest medicine.

And they're in New York and we're here
in Miami or maybe they're out of Chicago,

but they're like, they got a web guy.

You know, I can't figure it out.

So I get a ton of referrals.

That's a, my main
business is word of mouth.

I do not do any advertising other
than you know, media mentions, paid

placements, like parasite and stuff
are obviously big, but, um, I don't

do any paid ads or anything like that.

A lot of it comes from within because
it wasn't a focus for a very long

time while I had e com running.

Yeah.

To me, I like my portfolio of niche sites
too, which I build in the background.

I've never stopped doing that.

Okay.

Doug: What percentage would you say
are the spas of all your clients?

25, 25%.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

So I was, I was expecting
it could be like 80%.

So it really is a wide range.

And Okay, that's great with a word of
mouth because people can actually see the

results and they're asking about it or
they got such good result results that

they're sharing it with their friend or
peer from sounds like another market.

So it's not a direct competitor.

Typically, right?

Okay.

I see how that works.

Cause some people would be a little
more protective, but if it's across

the country, it's not a huge deal.

All right.

Tim: Well, the thing is a lot
of these guys and chiropractors

are part of that mold as well.

You know, they go to these annual
meetups and they have to learn the latest

tactics and medicines and theories,
like I'd said before, and a lot of

these guys went to college together and
then they set up in different markets.

So you have, you know, Dr.

Oliviero, who's down in Key West,
uh, went to school in Atlanta with a

gentleman in New Jersey and they're
friends and, you know, they, Became

organic friends over the years where
college buddies, they share contacts.

I mean, when things work for
them, they want their friends

to succeed in other markets.

So that's a big thing for me.

Doug: Aside from the word of mouth, do
you do any other sort of marketing, maybe

even just like speak at those events where
you show up as like a marketing expert?

Tim: I do show up to those kinds of events
when they're, when I'm able to do that.

Networking is pretty big for me.

I'm a social person.

So your network is your, your net worth
is based on your network, you know?

So, a lot of people know me around
town as the guy who can just

do cool things on the internet.

So I go to a cigar bar here in Fort
Lauderdale that has a lot of high

net worth people, ex athletes and
stuff, and they all have some sort of

business interest and there's not a
day the owner doesn't say talk to Tim.

Talk to Tim.

So I do their marketing.

It's a cigar bar.

So you can see I'm all over the range.

I've got real estate investors.

Kairos, med spas, adult companies,
and you know, there's really not one

thing I'm married to and I know a lot
of people have that whole niche down

to be the best at that one niche.

Well, I've got that going in the medical
area, but um, look, if someone's out

there and needs help, it's the same
strategy just with a little bit different

tweaking and focus and messaging.

And you

Doug: highlighted it there.

You have the right contacts and
you're putting yourself out there and

people know what you're working on.

So if you can get the results in other
industries, it's a no, no brainer.

Like you've, you put in the time
also, like we can't ignore the couple

decades of experience you have.

Okay.

So let's talk about retaining clients.

We talked about acquiring them.

So once they're on board and they're
hopefully getting great results,

how do you keep them around?

Cause I know there's
sometimes a perception that.

Once you're getting the traffic,
okay, these guys did their work.

We can get rid of the marketing
agency and we should be fine.

So how do you keep folks around?

Tim: To me, transparency is number one,
that, and just keeping your eye on new

trends and evolving like right now I'm
doing a lot of YouTube stuff for myself

and my clients as well, but going back to
the first tidbit, transparency is huge.

I've had a very large global adult
company for going on 10 years and they

know firsthand they've been doing it.

You know, they, they work with
people 10 years before they hired me.

And they understand that
we're going to hit updates.

We're going to hit turbulence and
we're going to have fantastic months

and there's months it goes down.

So when you have a client like
that, that understands that it's

just literally updating them,
Hey, there was a massive update.

We're looking in to what to do.

We lost 60 percent of traffic.

You just got to be transparent with them
and say, this, this, this is a game.

We're always playing the game.

And I've seen it.

I mean, when I started, I didn't,
we didn't know what Google was.

We knew what it was,
but it wasn't anything.

We were based our whole SEO campaign
on Yahoo and Yahoo directory.

And those were really fun
times because it was super easy

and that's all anyone wanted.

But now you got to look
out for other things.

I mean, DuckDuckGo is growing.

So I think it's being transparent with
what's going on, updating them instead

of hiding when there's bad news, you
know, they'd rather hear it from you

that, Hey, we're down to stick with me.

We're going to figure it out.

And being transparent.

And letting them know rather than one
day they wake up and they look at their

traffic like, Whoa, what happened?

Well, where's my web guy?

You know, he's hiding.

No, you want to be
transparent about that stuff.

So for me, retention is being
honest about everything.

And not only that, trying to
make it up with something else.

So we've, we've added parasite
SEO to the mix the last couple of

years when things aren't amazing.

And those are high placements and they
cut into margins like really extreme.

I mean, some of these placements go
for a few thousand dollars, but they

can get instant results when they work.

So just supplementing that and
finding out that or creating something

on YouTube that could lead to
them as well is also a big thing.

Doug: Part of the transparency
is an education process.

So do you have any, I guess, criteria
for clients that you will work with?

Maybe if, and I'll
explain it just directly.

If someone doesn't know much about SEO
and they hear you say that and they're

like, I don't know if I want to work with
that guy, because it sounds like it's

more turbulent when this other, maybe
less competent SEO agency is saying, Hey,

we're going to take care of everything.

We'll get you on page one.

Don't worry about anything at all.

And they don't have the transparency.

So how do you judge whether you want to
work with a client or not based on how

much you're going to have to educate

Tim: them?

That's a really good question.

And it's something that we deal
with constantly in this industry.

There's a lot of people that want
instant results and there's, you

know, some pretty underhanded people
that promise that kind of stuff.

And I always tell them, look, I'm
not going to promise you anything.

I'm going to tell you that.

Based on your space and this is a range
and just it's not typical but it can

happen Just plan on investing in this
for six to nine months before you see

anything dramatic now I could show you
something awesome in month three, but

to me I keep that in my back pocket
Like let me surprise you with that and

say hey, we're trending above pace.

That's a really good thing I'd be honest
with them that it's not an overnight game.

It's a long term game Once you get off
the ride, things can start slowing down.

Once you stop building backlinks and stop
looking at your tech, things can happen.

So I'm really transparent with them.

If they don't understand that, I just
tell them it's not a good fit because

the headaches and the people that do not
understand that and need that handholding

all the time, take away from you being
able to deliver for your other clients.

So I'm pretty selective and
probably turned down people that a

lot of people wouldn't turn down.

But again, I want to make
sure they understand it and

know what they're getting into
because it's not 2012 anymore.

You know, things matter like
anchor text diversity and where

you're getting your signals from.

You can't just pop things up and
go on black hat world and buy

links anymore and expect miracles.

It's just not the way it works right now.

Doug: It sounds like you go with sort of a
gut feel on how the conversation is going.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Tim: And I also engage people
and ask a lot of questions.

Have you ever worked with
anyone in SEO before?

What are the results?

What did they do?

And I learned from that.

I mean, again, when you're selling, you
want to be listening and asking questions.

You don't want to be selling and just
slamming information down their throat.

So it's more consultative than anything.

And if they don't have good feedback
based on that, or they give you like,

well, I don't know, give me a proposal.

It's just, it's not a good fit.

Like they're not really quite ready.

They need to have their pain
points, understand that they

haven't done any of it before.

Obviously there's.

More of an education process explaining.

Okay.

You have a brand new domain.

You registered it last month.

You're behind the eight ball, right?

You don't have any social setup.

We're starting at absolute ground zero.

You're going to be more on a 12 to
16 month runway to even get anything

significant authority wise unless
you're in a really easy market.

So you just got to be
really honest with them.

And I think you hit it really on
the head with the gut feeling.

There's a lot of people out there,
you know, right away, whether they

understand and they're willing to
let you guide them for six to nine

months or whatever, however long
it takes to gain that traction.

And there's some people that are
like, You know, they're going

to judge you after a month to be
like, this is a waste of money.

And, you know, for me, I, I invest
a lot of the first few months money

right up front and don't really
take profit until later, because

I want to get that thing going.

I invest a lot of the budget in that.

Even if it means nothing for myself,
because I think you have to hit

the ground running and some people
need a lot more help than others.

And you need that budget to go
ahead and build everything you need.

Doug: And I can speak from experience.

I don't work with clients now, but there
was a small period of time where I would.

Take a client, even if I had that sort
of unsure feeling, always a huge headache

that they're the most demanding folks
typically, and I, I knew it like when

we were having the initial call, but
I was like, Ah, maybe it'll work out.

It never works out.

It never works out.

Do you have a story like that as well?

Tim: Yeah, I do.

I had a gentleman that I met at a
conference and he was gung ho about

growing his business and in three
to four months, which was, I mean,

again, this was eight, nine years ago.

So as we both know, SEO
was easier back then.

Every year it gets harder.

Three, four months, we get them
on page one, not number one,

but like number three or five.

And he was getting great traffic.

And he said, Hey, thank you so much.

You've done wonderful.

Um, everything's amazing, but I'm going to
cancel now because I'm where I need to be.

I'm going to pause it for a while.

And if we, you know, fall off
page one, I'll call you back.

And I literally had a quote that my, I was
sharing this client with a partner of mine

who kind of did some backend stuff for
me, and he laughed at the email I replied

with, and it said, it's not Nintendo, you
don't hit pause and come back to it later.

You need to constantly be
doing this stuff because.

Once you turn the game off,
you have to start over.

I think I gave him a Nintendo analogy.

My friend's like, that was one
of the funniest things I've

ever heard, but it's true.

He was so happy for three months.

And initially I kind of got
that vibe from him that he was

looking to make some fast money.

And he was in an industry where
the leads were worth a lot to him.

And then once he got a couple of big ones,
his life kind of changed a little bit.

And I think that's
probably why you paused.

But I got that feeling when I got
that email, Hey, thank you so much.

You've been amazing, but we're done.

And I was like, wow, I've
never got that one before.

Doug: So go with your gut feeling folks.

You're probably right.

People don't magically all of a
sudden like change their vibe.

So, okay.

Very good.

Um, let's, let's move on to something
that I think was kind of in the

subtext of what you mentioned before
and sort of like lifetime value.

How, how long do you.

Expect to have someone as a client.

You have an actual like lifetime
value, uh, calculated an

estimate, that sort of thing.

I've never

Tim: really looked at that because
for many years, client wasn't a focus.

I had the EconViz from 09 to, and
it was kind of started actually

in 08 conceptualized and a lot
of work went into it to 22.

And on that point, I only worked with
select people that were word of mouth.

So I'm only going back a few
years after I exited in 2022.

I just stay on and consult for a while.

And then I really last year opened
back up to taking new clients.

But not really, but I mean, I've had
some that with me since 11 that are still

there and I haven't raised the rates
for inflation, which I should probably

should do, but, um, they're there.

So it's different in every industry.

I mean, there's people where if
you build a lot of value and you're

indispensable, I mean, I have one med spa.

That's what been with me since 11.

Literally, she, I've provided so
much value, she doesn't know how

to even put a new post on her site.

She's like, Hey, we have this
new, um, service we're offering.

Can you take all this text, make it
look good and put it on the site?

And I'm kept around for things like
that, that are really menial and tedious.

But again, like I'm indispensable and
the campaign does so well that not

a lot of work at this point goes in.

Obviously, you Keep your eye on
it and keep building links and

you always want to be better.

But it's, it's one of those things that
we've peaked in a very small market and

we're doing very well and we're almost,
you know, untouchable in that space.

So keeping the value by doing
little things for that can

go a long way to retention.

As far as lifetime value, I mean,
people come and go, trends come and go.

I have had people that were in spaces
that I knew were kind of gray area.

Like I had a big crypto client in
2018 and they had this newsletter and

they just wanted to put up content
and links and get it to the top

and become an authority newsletter.

And then when the market kind of
tanked, they were like, Hey, we're done.

And I kind of knew that going in
and I priced that in accordingly,

but that kind of stuff happens.

Doug: And you had to exit from
the e comm business in 2022.

You mentioned it's, I assume that
was pretty successful and I'm

going to go in a very roundabout
way to, to ask this question.

So I, it sounds like.

You're not worrying too much
about the lifetime value.

It sounds like you're
maybe doing this for fun.

You had a big exit.

I take it.

So like, you don't have to be in the
weeds thinking, how can I squeeze

the efficiency out of this business?

Is that accurate?

Tim: That's true.

And also that in the background, I have
my portfolio of niche sites too, which

those I can, you know, flip and scale
and flip, which is a big thing for me.

Client selling an agency is
very hard and I know that's

got to be like your sole focus.

Like you're building an agency
with ironclad contracts, long term

value, and you can sell the agency.

That's never been a thing I've wanted
to do because I'm so personal with my

clients and, and again, just kind of
like working on the referral basis.

I think that even if I sold the agency,
if I wasn't involved in it, they

wouldn't want to continue because I've
built these long lasting relationships.

A lot of times it's like working with
the, um, Um, you know, a real estate

agent or, or someone to that nature
where you feel so comfortable with

them that if they sold their business,
like, Hey, there's the new guy in town.

He's going to show you the house,
like the next house to invest in.

It doesn't feel the same.

So that's never really been my strategy.

And I have, you know, like you said,
an exit and then my portfolio of

sites are like my bread and butter.

So it's kind of a thing that I do, I don't
want to say for sport, but I like helping

businesses and I hate saying no to people
that I know I could do really well for.

So I make extra time to do the
client SEO, even though it's

not my favorite thing to do.

My favorite thing to do
is build affiliate sites.

Doug: Okay.

Which we will transition
into in just a second.

It's great to hear that.

Cause I know some of the podcasts I
listened to and other content that I

consume, there's a huge focus on just like
growth and hustle culture and air quotes.

And that's not my, that's not my approach.

I'm a, I'm a lot more.

Lifestyle focused, I guess.

And there's a bunch of lifestyle
focused people as well, where my

time is the most valuable thing.

I don't have to do all the stuff
that I'm doing, but I find the things

that I am working on pretty fun.

And I think Tim, it sounds
like you have the same thing.

You're like, I have this skill.

You like solving the problems.

You like helping people
that need to outsource it.

Cause they got to focus
on their main business.

And not get stuck in the weeds
of SEO and trying to keep up

with essentially a full time job.

So before we switch to the
affiliate marketing niche

sites, let's talk about pricing.

Can you explain your approach to
pricing knowing that it's kind of a

fun business and that sometimes People
come and go like the crypto client that

you mentioned and you price that in.

So what's your overall approach
to pricing a long term gig?

Tim: I've always gone with the kind of
fact that no two jobs are the same, right?

Unless you're talking about
the same exact market.

And I tell people this on
the phone all the time.

You want to rank for a criminal
justice attorney, criminal defense

attorney, sorry, in New York City,
that's going to be one price.

If you want to rank for it in
Dubuque, Iowa, that's another price.

You know, it's just, we're talking about
all the people in the populace of New York

city versus a very small town in Iowa.

Your competition is going to be different.

There's way too many
factors that are different.

There, there might be two or
three really good SEO managed

campaigns going on at Dubuque.

I don't know.

I haven't looked at it.

When you look at that you have to
take into consideration the market,

the demographic of the market, the
need for the service in the market.

So I could give you a shining example.

Uh, the activities going on in med
spas, whether it's a Botox procedure

or a Brazilian butt lift, they're
absolutely massive down here, right,

in Miami Fort Lauderdale area.

Doesn't happen in the Midwest so much.

People aren't as in vogue, they aren't
as vague, the vanity thing isn't there.

Uh, I'm not saying there aren't
people that do it, but the demand

is absolutely massive down here.

Just the culture that we're
in other markets is different.

So here the prices may
be a lot higher up there.

They might be slower.

So you have to look at what the
customer can also make on their backend.

If there's a guy who tells you he
has 500 a month to rank his site and

he's selling a service you know, like
a nose job, that's going to start at

8, 000, I mean, you've got to look
at him and say, sorry, like, you

know, this isn't going to happen.

It's a competitive space.

You're doing these.

Huge luxury procedures that people
are investing several thousand

dollars in in your budget.

It's nothing.

I mean you get one customer You
probably profit at your whole year.

Your whole campaign is free
for the year at that point.

Um, you just have to look
at their margins too.

So again, competition is number
one for me, but it's very

hard to price in a campaign.

I mean, there's people I've turned away
cause they're selling 12 trinkets and

it might be the coolest little you know,
water bottle you can travel with in your

golf bag ever, but for a couple thousand
dollars a month, you need to sell a lot of

those and then make sure you resell those.

That's a product to me that people would
buy once, maybe twice if they lose it

or break it, but you have to look at
lifetime value of customers as well.

So.

In the adult world, which
a lot of it's subscription

based, um, and dating as well.

That's a very, very hard customer to get
because the back end is so good for them.

When you've got people paying 39 a month
to be on a dating site and they stay

on for years and they're on multiple
of them, that's a pretty big thing.

Thanks a lot to Tim.

That concludes part one, of course.

Part two is coming up in the next episode.

So if you want to hear what comes
next, be sure to check that one out.

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