Ranking Revolution

Welcome to the brain.

Revolution podcast, your go-to
source for strategies and

ideas for SEO, organic growth.

Content creation and online business.

My name's Doug Cunnington.

And I'm your host?

This is part two of the
interview with Barb David's.

And if you missed the first
part, be sure to check it out.

We talk about analyzing data
and when it might be misleading.

And now in this episode,
we're going to talk about her.

Progress and her journey from being
a member of a corporate team in

the marketing department to growing
her own business and consultancy.

She's also a digital nomad and she's
generally keeping the business small while

trying to figure out how to scale it.

And this is a challenge that I
went through myself when I got

laid off from my job in 2015.

And it took me about six
months to sort of figure out.

Where I wanted to take the business.

And it was a little sloppy, of course.

Like you could imagine when you don't
know what you're doing, but this

is a journey which was a struggle.

It was difficult.

There are many people that have
gone from a corporate environment

to being a solopreneur, but there
might not be any in your immediate

sort of circle of friends or.

Your community.

So it's a little, it's a little
bit of a tough journey because a

lot of times you are by yourself
until you establish a community.

So I hope you find this
conversation interesting.

And let's get to a right now.

Let's hear from Barb.

David's.

Doug: Okay.

Okay.

So you, you got fired from your
other job and you were like, okay,

now it's time to go out on my own.

Talk about that process and
like, it was probably scary.

So just kind of walk us through maybe
the first year, 18 months or so.

Barb: Yeah.

I lived off of unemployment basically
and one or two clients, it wasn't enough

to make any kind of income whatsoever.

So I used that time to build up the client
base and work through referrals mostly

and I, it seems like such a blur now.

How did I do it?

I, I know that I did a lot of work on my
website and trying to market it that way.

I think that was the big thing
was not doing enough networking.

That really was an underutilized tool
in my opinion for what I was doing at

the time and how I was getting started.

I think I should have networked more.

I would definitely recommend that.

And.

Even though I mentioned this to my
clients now, I, I never did it for my

business back then, but like pushing
out your content and making sure that

it gets out there all the time and in
various ways and repeating yourself

like that is such like the core
component of, because if you don't,

how are people going to know about you?

That it's just like every other business.

Like when you buy shoes or you buy
clothes, they're always out there.

You can always see them in some form
or fashion, but if you didn't know

about them, you wouldn't buy them.

So

Doug: how would you network?

Barb: Uh, that's a great question.

I think conferences are good.

I think.

People are probably getting a
little overdone by computer,

uh, zoom calls or whatnot.

So I would say conferences
are probably pretty good.

And also there have been a lot more
networking groups built up over the past

couple of years in specific industries,
specific demographics, what whatnot.

I think those are super helpful as well.

I've tried to join a few of
them and not even just like for

digital marketing specifically.

Like I have done some that
are based off of blogging.

I have done some that are
based off of digital nomadding.

And so it's could be anything
that like you like to do.

It could just be that kind of group and
talking with people about it that way.

But the conferences I think are
good just because you maybe, Things

that are closer to your niche.

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able
to articulate this exactly, but not

necessarily going to the ones for digital
marketing or for SEO or for content

marketing, but going to conferences
where those clients would be going.

So maybe it's, I'm not going
to have a good example, but

something that's next time.

Oh, good.

Go.

Doug: We, I mean, you went down the path.

So I was going to say, would you go to
industry, um, conferences like SEO and

marketing, or would you go to others?

And this is a mistake
that I've made too, Barb.

So when I was reflecting on the
podcast that I started in 2019, and

some of the stuff that I've worked
on, I was like, I should have.

Been going to like a mom blog
conference or I started going to a

personal finance Conference a huge one.

It's called fin con and I have another
podcast on personal finance So I started

going for that But then I started bumping
into a couple other peers that do more

marketing stuff and basically Everyone
else wants to know about seo and marketing

or they want to know about podcasting
or whatever So you'll start seeing

people that Maybe I want to do talks on
podcasting so I can go to real estate.

I can go to like, uh, a law conference and
say, Hey, you want to get more clients?

Like start a podcast.

You could network like crazy.

You can go to travel bloggers.

Like, like there's so many
different conferences, basically.

You could figure out how to wedge your
content creation skills or your blogging

skills or SEO or whatever, even just
keyword research and say, Oh, keyword

research comes into play for selling
products on Amazon or for Pinterest or

on SEO, like search engines or anywhere.

People can search for something, read it.

So all of a sudden you could
take your skills and just like

figure out how to frame it.

So it fits in like any other industry.

And that, I think that's where you could,
you make like a huge amount of headwind.

Cause not everyone else is talking
about what you're talking about.

You're special there.

If you go to an SEO conference,
we're all talking to SEO.

We all know the same stuff.

So any thoughts on that?

Barb: Nope.

Fully agree.

That, that was exactly.

what I was trying to say,
but couldn't get out.

Perfect.

Doug: It only hit me in like the
last whatever couple months and I

was like, Oh, I should have been
talking about the keyword golden ratio

everywhere else aside from SEO places.

Cause some SEO people will argue
with you, but if you say keyword

golden ratio and other places
are like, Oh, that's a cool idea.

So.

All right.

Awesome.

Well, let's talk a little bit
about some of the clients that you.

are working with currently and maybe
how that has changed over the years,

or if you're like focusing on one
industry or how that kind of works.

Barb: So the ones I have with me right
now have been with me almost since

the beginning and there have been, I
fired two actually since the beginning.

That was interesting.

I always heard about that happening,
but never actually did it.

And it was mostly the, it was a, one was
a lawyer and one was an air conditioning

place and both places were two.

needy, I think, and they were
too up in my face and they

wouldn't just let me do my thing.

And I think that's what makes it difficult
when people are having a hard time.

Maybe they trust you, but they're
having a hard time with the.

For my business for like SEO and content
marketing they're having trouble having

patience and Allowing things to happen.

And so I just said this wasn't a good
fit I'm gonna have to let you go like

and that's fine and they got it to
that I think that they realized even

though I set the expectation beforehand.

They just they just couldn't
keep up The patients at all.

It just wasn't gonna work.

So the other ones that I work with, I
have different varying levels and one

is like an A one-to-one consulting.

Another one is kind of like
on a maintenance package.

So there's not much more that we
can do outside of like pushing

20,000 more articles out there.

But there's only so much you can
write about for certain industries.

So we're kind of like on a, on
a, what do you want to call it?

Yeah.

The maintenance kind of thing.

So we push out some new stuff
and then we do some refreshing.

So we kind of go back
and forth between that.

And then I have another client who
has multiple brands and I do, I do

everything in terms of marketing,
not even just digital marketing.

It's marketing general.

And that was one of my first clients.

And I always think that everybody
has a story about their first

client in some former fashion.

And that's what this one is.

So it's been fun to watch her grow
like because she, um, was okay.

So she does ceremonies and
wedding weddings in Las Vegas.

And before the pandemic, she
was doing micro weddings.

And so when the pandemic hit, and even
though it closed down here for three

months or whatever that was, she was
already set for the type of wedding

people were looking for afterwards, micro
weddings, smaller weddings in Las Vegas.

So that way you could just come in, get
married, have a whole vacation, whatever.

And so that really set
the tone for her business.

And it's been just going up ever since.

And I think that's what's, what's really
fun in terms of the clients that I have.

They just watching them
grow is the fun thing.

So, and then I have those clients
and then I have the group coaching

program for the people who contact me,
but maybe can't afford me one to one.

I still want to help them.

I feel like I was in when I was in
digital marketing and doing the corporate

stuff, I just wanted answers and I felt
like it was really difficult to get.

Direct answers for me.

People were really so like
tight with their answers.

They didn't want to give them away.

And so for this group coaching,
I feel like this is a way to help

more small business owners with
what they need and integrating

digital marketing to their business.

Doug: Got it.

Can you go even deeper
on the group coaching?

We were chatting a little beforehand
and I know for me Thinking about the

scalability of just like one on one help
and obviously that's expensive Like our

time is expensive because we could be
literally doing anything else so like

one on one coaching is expensive but
like Some people just cannot afford it.

So Again, can you just go
deeper on the, on the coaching?

Like, how is it set up?

What does the offer look like?

And.

I guess.

Do you have any future plans
to change it as you're seeing

how everything is developing?

Yeah,

Barb: I'm sure it'll change.

Like I just, I live in change,
but it started last year.

I only have a handful of,
uh, members right now.

And basically they got in at a certain
amount and I went back and forth about

how I was going to structure this and I'm
sure it's going to change, but for right

now it's structured at a one price level
and they came in at a discounted price.

And as long as they stay a member,
they stay at that number because I

get so frustrated when I buy a tool
or something and it's a lifetime and

then they say, Nope, we've changed it.

Now you have to start purchasing it.

And it drives me insane.

So for admin sake and my sanity sake,
I'm like, okay, if you come in at

that number, you're just going to stay
that way as long as you stay a member.

If you go out and come back in.

Then you have to come in at the
price that it is at that time.

So what they can do is they can come in,
I just tell them they can use me when

they want to, because I don't feel like
I've seen a lot of other models like this

with this particular type of content.

So around digital marketing, so they
come in and there's two coaching calls

a week, and then there's one focus
session and they can come and go as

they please or not show up, or they
can come to Slack and ask questions.

And basically it's a coaching environment.

They might be like one person
has information, they just want

to know how to do LinkedIn.

They don't even do SEO or
content marketing at all.

They just want to do what they
do, content marketing because

they're pushing out on LinkedIn.

That's their business.

That's where they're going to be.

I have another person who her strategy is
more around, um, guest posting and she's

going to move into blogs or refreshing her
blogs, but it's more about guest posting.

Getting on a guest posting piece
because she's able to write

for a very well known website.

I'm like, hey do that You're
already getting traffic.

Like that's a great one to do and then
I have another one who hasn't used me

at all She's never been in any of the
meetings and so I think they took it

literally like they can just Come in when
they want but at least they got me at the

discounted rate because by hourly, I'm
150 dollars an hour If they purchase the

the program it's 197 a month So it's at
their best benefit to do it that way, and

I feel like it's an affordable number.

I didn't really have a rhyme or reason.

Somebody just asked me this the other day.

I didn't have a rhyme or reason other than
what felt good, and I think by itself, if

I went to look at who's using the program
and who's not, it's kind of a mismatch

of whether or not there's a return.

But the idea is that it's scalable.

So for my business model, it's
scalable and I don't have to put

all my eggs in one basket with
just clients, one to one clients.

And on the same time, I'm helping small
business owners who needed the Makes

Doug: sense.

And if you look at if they are a Like
a department head in a business, like

200 a month on a bunch of line items,
like that's a reasonable amount to

pay for like external support, expert
opinions to help you solve a problem

quickly instead of like wasting days
and maybe picking the wrong one.

So that makes total sense.

Barb: Compared to 2, 000
a month for a consultant.

Doug: Right.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Awesome.

Any other, any other details
like how are the leads coming

in for the coaching program?

Barb: They are slow.

I am working on my messaging.

It's it's a very unique,
how do I say this?

It's a very unique program and I think
I'm still trying to land on the messaging.

So it's always this thing too.

I think for us small business owners,
it's like the cobbler's shoe story, right?

We do things and we can understand
how to work other people's

businesses, but when it comes to
our own, it's a lot different story.

So I've been pushing out my message
and I have been, I think, too tactical

and too functional in my messaging.

So I've been reworking it and trying to
come up with a new way to Get in front

of people and using their pain points
and their words even though I thought

I was doing that before I'm learning
that I'm not and also Trying to get

like organic search right takes a while.

So I've been working on that with my
website and on the other time I do

Instagram and LinkedIn cause I feel
like that's where my audience is.

However, I'm at the mercy
of the algorithm, right?

So most of my stuff doesn't get seen
even though I've been out there for some

time and publishing every single day.

So, yeah, it's one of those things.

Doug: Well, and you, you
have a podcast, right?

So that I, I'm, I'm a big, uh,
I'm really a pusher of podcasts.

So like I'm telling
everyone, start a podcast.

So tell, tell me about your show some.

Barb: Yeah, so I started at the end
of January and it's called small

business sweet spot and it's for
helping small business owners make

sense of digital marketing, knowing
what works, what doesn't work.

And ideally, my initial
thought is to give information.

all the fluff.

Because a lot of the times when
I'm trying to listen and learn, I

feel like I get so much backstory.

Like I don't need that much backstory.

I just need to know how to do the thing.

And I'm not saying that backstory
isn't good, but I am very much more

of a very straightforward, here's
how you do it kind of person.

So they aim to be a lot shorter and
then they I feel like are a little bit

more realistic to say, okay, here's
what you really need to look at.

Here's what else you can
do, but you don't need to.

Um, and it's actually,
um, both audio and video.

So that was the other thing.

I figured if I'm going in, I
might as well do them both.

Doug: Yeah.

Highly recommend that.

And on YouTube you get the benefit of like
some discoverability where on the audio

only side, um, People kind of have to
be looking for you and there's very few

people that go in and search really hard.

So Yeah Okay.

Well cool.

Where where could people
find you out there?

Barb: The easiest way to find me is
just type in compassdigitalstrategies.

com and then that takes you all the

Doug: places.

All right.

Cool.

And we'll link up, um, both
for the YouTube channel, the

podcast and all that stuff.

And thanks a lot, Barb.

Really appreciate it.

And yeah, I guess we'll talk soon.

Barb: All right.

Thanks, Doug.

Thanks a lot to bar for
hanging out with me.

If you dig the episode, be sure
to check out compass digital

strategies and her podcast.

She actually interviewed me on her
show where I talk about podcasting.

And I think I make the case that everyone
should have a podcast, regardless

of any other thoughts that you might
have that might be against podcasting.

I think you should start one anyway.

So you've got to check out that
episode to see why I'm so certain of

myself, which now saying it out loud.

I'm not even that certain of
it, but I like podcasting.

This is my third one.

And if you want to help me
out, I really appreciate it.

Make sure you leave a review
wherever you're listening to

this, make sure you're subscribed.

So you get all the episodes and if you're
listening to this and you made it all the

way to the end of part two with Barb here.

That means you're probably into SEL.

And you probably liked me
a little bit because you've

listened to this whole episode.

You're soliciting right now.

And then at this point, I'm
just rambling a little bit, but.

Here's the reason why I'm bringing it up.

The thing is you probably are interested
in sort of algorithmic things.

So one thing I'm doing with this show is
I am separating interviews into two parts.

I'm releasing them at the same time.

I'm also launching the show.

With as many episodes as possible to
sort of boost those downloads as well.

And I'm trying to work with each
of the folks that I interviewed

to help share it around.

So at least their audience
will check out their episode.

And if they happen to listen to a
couple of others and they hear me.

Really begging for these reviews and
downloads, they may check it out.

So here's the ask, you know, you'll leave
those reviews, all that stuff, leave

comments on YouTube, subscribe, all that
good stuff, download all the episodes

you can, wherever you're listening to it.

Of course that doesn't apply on
YouTube, but for all the other podcast

players download all the episodes
that sends a really good message.

This is my theory.

It sends a really good message to
Spotify or apple that people are

really enjoying the show and it will
boost the downloads in the beginning.

And I am.

Sort of manip in air quotes.

All right.

I'm manipulating how many
downloads there might be because

I'm publishing more episodes.

And sometimes these are shorter.

In fact, I'm going to be working on
a series of pretty short episodes

that are just short little essays.

That are, you know, four
to 10 minutes long or so.

And hopefully you'll really enjoy those,
but I'm just going to cover one topic.

Versus my other show, which, uh,
potentially can cover many topics and

ramble in so many different directions.

And tangents and all that stuff.

So anyway, If you could do
me a favor, download all the

episodes, it'll be super awesome.

And I will report back whether or not
this works and whether people actually

did Dale, but a lot of episodes.

So that's it for today.

We'll catch you on the next episode.